Author Topic: In Service and Love  (Read 6317 times)

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Ron Hammar

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Re: In Service and Love
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2016, 02:10:24 AM »
Hi Overmind,

You said

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It is impossible for the Father or Trinity to propose a plan to use evil to spread goodness.

Was this not what Adam and Eve did?

Peter by his sin on that night of denial had a choice to learn a lesson from it which would proved a benefit for him. He took a bad setting and was able to draw some good out of it for himself. But it was in no way the Fathers will.


JamesD

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Re: In Service and Love
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2016, 02:46:09 AM »
Dear Overmind,
Sorry, James, I may have sounded a bit harsh. I just think in your attempt to find value in everything you end up rationalizing sin, and that sort of thinking isn't really a good idea.
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In fact, his actions were so disgustingly awful (going to the extent of spiritually corrupting infants and children on the nursery worlds), I shake my head every time someone makes the suggestion that Lucifer's activity was planned out to ultimately provide benefits. You don't accept great costs for the sake of a silver lining.

Oh to have you running running the planet! You are a wonderful loving guy. (Meant in the most positive way, and with respect.)
We could all be sitting back smelling the roses but don't forget the thorns (maybe we don't need them either, but - oh yes -  they do serve a purpose).

I'd vote for you...   .... or would I if I had the opportunity to attend one of the most difficult ascendancy universities for the accelerated learning?

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Evil does not exist to God.

Yes - Please note I shuffled around the word 'Evil' as our Creator doesn't know what that is. Moving down the hierarchy from Him other Laws and Judgement apply however, and various, sometimes apparently harsh, stimulus is applied for creature learning.  What of parents loss of a child? Is that the Creator being evil, obviously not.

Death is not a tragedy. Is is part of the soul's journey, and all souls of 'value' will ultimately return the the Father.

I suggest that irrespective of what we and other higher level entities do (and they do make mistakes - they don't always achieve planned outcomes), the creator does know the cause and affect for all activities in the Universe, holds all the cards, and His desired outcomes will occur.

Love to All, JimD






"It's life Jim but not as you know it....."
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Kurt

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Re: In Service and Love
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2016, 05:04:03 AM »
This thread is one of the most brilliant threads on the forum! Thanks to Overmind and all for these most valuable insights contained in the discussion. Assale's big questions are amazing!
James's comments are correct in my opinion because it has been revealed before on this forum of plans to make Urantia into an architectural world containing a university and/or museum about the Lucifer rebellion. I think the rebellions were allowed to proceed to illustrate the consequences of  iniquity as a result of free will. We live on worlds where adversity exists to build character for our future. There is adversity in the eternal spiritual realms as well. Learning continues forever as we all strive to become perfect as God has commanded us. This is merely the starting point.
Domtia
Kurt

overmind

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Re: In Service and Love
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2016, 12:22:12 PM »
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We could all be sitting back smelling the roses but don't forget the thorns (maybe we don't need them either, but - oh yes -  they do serve a purpose).
I'm all for accepting the benefits of suffering and challenges, I just don't want this sort of reasoning to reach the point where harming others looks like an acceptable decision.
I wanted to sail, so the universe built me a galleon.

JamesD

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Re: In Service and Love
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2016, 05:33:45 PM »
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We could all be sitting back smelling the roses but don't forget the thorns (maybe we don't need them either, but - oh yes -  they do serve a purpose).
I'm all for accepting the benefits of suffering and challenges, I just don't want this sort of reasoning to reach the point where harming others looks like an acceptable decision.

I agree. I don't want to continue a conversation where we dwell on harm, nor anything that suggests our Father can be anything but Loving.

I only meant to investigate the Father's mighty wisdom. It was my feeling that his wisdom is ultimate, he doesn't make 'mistakes' or events 'unforeseen' but that some downstream entities (including us) may judge some events as mistakes because they/(we) can't comprehend the Grand Plan.

I suggest that ascending, and perhaps higher, beings may experience what we think of as tragedies but what if the Father provided the environment for these apparent negative expressions of free will it was for him to experience the maximum from His creation (which I think is a prime reason for His Love and Light creation)? I also think that His Love is infinite and another prime in His plan is to bring all worthy souls home to Him but they having found Him through their divinely created 'character', as free will beings, of their love and faith despite adversity.

In part my query arises from reading TR'd/channeled communications in various places that the Correction Time is required due to the Father's mistake in not foreseeing what could have occurred.

So my wondering is - does the father make mistakes? (ie; could he 'say' to himself - I made a mistake?)

In thinking about this set aside your usual judgement from the perspective of this mortal existence, our inexperience and emotions regarding death, and attempt to be in the role of a Grand Planner where Time is not a factor. I don't know the answer but I am taking the naive approach and say I don't think the Father makes mistakes and loves us ultimately.

With full faith and awe of our Father, JimD
« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 06:37:11 PM by JamesD »
"It's life Jim but not as you know it....."
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overmind

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Re: In Service and Love
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2016, 06:59:05 PM »
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I suggest that ascending, and perhaps higher, beings may experience what we think of as tragedies but what if the Father provided the environment for these apparent negative expressions of free will it was for him to experience the maximum from His creation (which I think is a prime reason for His Love and Light creation)?
What I am attempting to communicate is that there is a difference between creating an environment where things may occur and instigating them. Early on, it seemed you were saying God was instigating or at least allowing Lucifer to continue, but it isn't really that simple (nor true). Perfect justice is just commonly slow in the universe, especially when dealing with system-wide affairs and a high level of mercy afforded by the Creator Son. The more authority someone has, the longer it can take to prosecute them because their activities have far more aftereffects to be recorded and understood. I also doubt that the rebellion would have been anywhere near as serious (or may not have occurred at all) had Micheal already completed his 7th bestowal.

To answer your other question, I don't really think any member of the Trinity makes mistakes either. Their children might since they are not all-knowing, but on the level of Paradise Sons, mistakes are not of a moral nature, but deal with the inevitable consequences of not having enough information (even though it is a lot more than we can grant them credit for). Of course, this is not while on Paradise, but within time-space. However, you could say that while God does not make errors, He is restricted in how He can interact with the universe. Because of that, fixing problems isn't nearly as easy. Our observation of what God is doing is also bound to be different from what is really going on.
I wanted to sail, so the universe built me a galleon.

JamesD

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Re: In Service and Love
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2016, 07:36:56 PM »
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What I am attempting to communicate is that there is a difference between creating an environment where things may occur and instigating them.
Agreed.

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it seemed you were saying God was instigating or at least allowing Lucifer to continue
Not necessarily instigated but He definitely knew that such a situation could arise in an environment He created, and had a purpose for it.

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Perfect justice is just commonly slow in the universe
I'm attempting to not see things as time based, as the Father doesn't experience time.

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Because of that, fixing problems isn't nearly as easy.
Was it a 'problem' if, for a simple example, we are successful in ascendancy but also with a hugely richer set of wisdom and experience; which He has experienced through us and contributes to the greater diversity in creation?

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Our observation of what God is doing is also bound to be different from what is really going on.
Totally agree but I still want to exercise the mind/brain that was provided with the aim of personally integrating more the concepts of Love, being We and non-judgmental (blaming) thinking.

Very much appreciate your thoughts Overmind.
JimD
"It's life Jim but not as you know it....."
   ~ Mait'Eliflik

overmind

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Re: In Service and Love
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2016, 08:15:35 PM »
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Was it a 'problem' if, for a simple example, we are successful in ascendancy but also with a hugely richer set of wisdom and experience; which He has experienced through us and contributes to the greater diversity in creation?
It depends on what is being discussed. Context is quite important here. For instance, it's not a problem that agondonters exist because of such rebellion, but it is a problem that so many humans do not have a surviving soul because of it. I would gladly remove my own status if it meant saving one of those lives, but I don't get to do that. In this case there is less diversity (in terms of people) because far fewer humans out there can represent Urantia in the ascension career.

Tragedy often provides value to those experiencing it in the sense that it becomes harder for a similar problem to come about. Put differently, the added experience offers little except that it reduces the chance of another problem occurring, or at least the damage is reduced. Take the problem away completely, and it was all for nothing. You cannot use what was gained. This is because you are using a negative experience to reduce the occurrence of future negative experiences. Such is valuable because not having to go through with the experience is valuable. In such a case, there really is no need for the given example of suffering to exist at all. Examples where suffering only provides that one benefit are slim, but I am quite certain that there are many examples where the costs outweighed the benefits, and most would be better off if nothing happened. I think murder is a prime example of this. It creates hardship for those who know the victim, the victim's ascension career is negatively impacted from a reduction in time spent here, and the perpetrator has a good chance of either being sentenced to death in the afterlife or not being resurrected at all. Perhaps those left on this world successfully deal with the hardship. We aren't really in a position where we can definitely state they are better off, and we have no way of knowing what life would have been like for those people if the incident never occurred. Just some things to think about.
I wanted to sail, so the universe built me a galleon.

MidiChlorian

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Re: In Service and Love
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2016, 09:49:19 PM »
[. . .]
I only meant to investigate the Father's mighty wisdom. It was my feeling that his wisdom is ultimate, he doesn't make 'mistakes' or events 'unforeseen' but that some downstream entities (including us) may judge some events as mistakes because they/(we) can't comprehend the Grand Plan.

I suggest that ascending, and perhaps higher, beings may experience what we think of as tragedies but what if the Father provided the environment for these apparent negative expressions of free will it was for him to experience the maximum from His creation (which I think is a prime reason for His Love and Light creation)? I also think that His Love is infinite and another prime in His plan is to bring all worthy souls home to Him but they having found Him through their divinely created 'character', as free will beings, of their love and faith despite adversity.

In part my query arises from reading TR'd/channeled communications in various places that the Correction Time is required due to the Father's mistake in not foreseeing what could have occurred.

So my wondering is - does the father make mistakes? (ie; could he 'say' to himself - I made a mistake?)

[. . .]

JamesD, to address your question above "does the father make mistakes?" must first be qualified as to which "Father" the question is addressed too?  If you are refereeing to the Heavenly Father, or Father of All, or "the first source and center", then being Alpha and Omega, the answer must be no.  Where being that we live within Him then all which has a beginning has an end regardless of eternal salvation, however being that His creation has many variables and entities, offspring if you like, they are all subject to error which is subject to the bestowal of free will.  The problem with free will is not in the ability to make choices but in the presentation of choices one may have to choose from.  What I have learned from reading the Urantia Book is that there is a problem with Spirit reality and material reality, where when they are combined and associated in time and space there is always a problem.  Regardless of what these problems may be a spirit entity cannot experience that of the material reality unless they are joined in some way, and this presents a unique problem.

The real question associated to whether "the father make(s) mistakes" is really why does He allow mistakes to occur, or happen?  The answer is simple, to learn from those mistakes.  This goes for all entities within His creation both spiritual and material.  This by itself is the only plan which can be forthcoming from our Universal Father.  Therefore there can be no right or wrong choosing if there is only one choice offered.  This has been a major problem with both celestials and humans to name just two for now, but this problem is that each one thinks that there can only be one choice to make, their own understanding of what they believe to be right.  Therefore, if by limiting all choices down to only one, can there be no free will.  It is by choosing, can we have free will but, if given no options to choose from or not given the opportunity to create choices for ourselves or others regardless of error is the act of oppression.

There is no problem with rebellion when it has reason behind it, and as is mentioned in the UB that if the majority feels it necessary to rebel against an oppressive minority can it be justifiable.  If a majority finds it necessary to rebel against a minority, where in this case an invisible minority who subjects their will upon those who have not been given a choice then this is a crime against the whole.  

It is indicated that Our Fathers Love is infinite, which can only be proved by exercising our selfless service to others in order to make or give them enough choices in order to allow them to resolve their problems without taking away their self-respect or the ability to love and be loved.  It is one thing to teach a man how to fish, instead of giving him a fish to eat, but when this man lives in a desert where there is no water for fish to live, is this saying received as being stupid to the desert dweller.  Therefore, is channeled communication unless if it has no substance for which one can use to actually resolve the daily issues that plague many who have no fish to eat, nor water to grow food in the desert, which they have been given or forced to live in.

For the most part Our Father is looking for action and results, not words of whether something is right or wrong.  If you know what the problems are, then fix them, or at least learn from making mistakes in trying for the right reasons.        


       
« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 09:52:25 PM by MidiChlorian »
The Reality of knowing what Wisdom is, is in the Experiencing of the Philosophy of using Knowledge.

Ron Besser

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Re: In Service and Love
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2016, 10:46:03 PM »
The question arises whether the Father is fallible (i.e. one you asked whether admits to mistakes?)
The question also arises, does the Father see our finite worlds full of mistakes and chooses to let them ride?  You have not really discussed this issue.
The other questions that arise are, how many of you know the conceptual degrees of thought to really argue what the Father may do or not do, and why?  That is the problem we have to face with people who want to discuss a very important subject but have not mastered the revealed processes that affect the Father's choices in matters we call sin, iniquity, and the compossibility of reviews constantly made by the infinite Father over eternal years of finite existences.

These issues and concepts have been worked over for years on this forum, and while I like to see the issues discussed as you do above, I never see the higher concepts of prevailing processes already at work in the Deities and the Universe of Universes.  Why? 

There is a major redress coming for all who wish to know revelation and to address conceptual knowledge that the Deities use conceptually to address whether the Father makes and admits mistakes or not, or even if the Father suffers tragedies in our part of the universe?  I wish and hope you James D and others who follow and are interested in these kinds of questions.  Whatever else is going on in the universe, let me at least remind you all of the following processes infinity uses to detail environmental problems in the finite worlds we inhabit and the worst tragedies that are ever found in time are occurring right here in Orvonton, Superuniverse Seven and which you and I are part of in Nebadon, our local universe.

Here is the list you need to include when surmising how the Father deals with universe dramas such as the Lucifer Rebellion:

1
Compossibility and its source of information -
Compossibility is an infinite review of all that has happened before in time history.  The Deity Absolute is the source of the facts in the review and the source of reporting to the Father what was found and how it was dealt with by the Trinity and each of the Paradise Deities individually or collectively in their seven creative unions, including the eight alliance of God the Seven Fold.  If you do not know the seven creative Deity unions bone up on them in the book; if you do not know what God the Sevenfold is bone up in the book.  If you do not know who the Supreme Creators are, bone up in the book to find who and what they are.  All suppress Deity actions on anything from "mistakes" to intentional Justice discharge in every case where compossibility is brought to bear by the Deity Absolute.
Compossibility prevents mistakes.  Compossibility prevents errors.  Compossibility prevents contradiction of action.  Compossibility prevents confusion of function.  If you ask what is function?, bone up in the Urantia Book about what Deity does what.  Functions are not duplicated for another Deity.  Only the mind Deity does mind.  Only the Spirit Deity does Spirit.  Each Deity is sovereign in their function and no one other touches that function another Deity does.  You will be relegated to incoherence if you do not make the effort to learn and use what you learn in discussions.  So much is discussed on this forum but so little deep conceptual  knowledge is brought to bear in those discussions you wind up confusing yourselves and create theories that are dead ends and  you do not know it.
The Father is over control.  He controls the universe and all of the creation.  It is his function to rectify anything other functions cannot rectify. He does not make mistakes.  He does not enter time.  Mistakes in time are not the existential Deity mode and you have to understand how they prevent mistakes in time through infinite integration which I discuss next.


Infinite Integration and Compossibility -   
The universe does not run just to run.  It has a plan.  That plan is to take what is running now and make that motion of its nearly infinite parts into an entirely and whole consummation of the purpose of life.

Paper 56, Universal Unity, will speak to these elements far better than I can.  Paper 105, Deity and Reality, should also be consulted for conceptual values missing in these arguments on the forum.  But I can remind you of the larger and better picture that picking at your own arguments and searching for discussion answers can produce.

Remember universe unity always exists and coheres in the Paradise Deities as a unit called the Paradise Trinity.  It is factually facetious to speculate that the infinite universe is ruled over by someone who admits to mistakes.  Perfection is inherent in the Infinity of Infinities, and in so many words, the Father as the First Source and Center invented the status of Infinity to propagate a situation in which all the references to development point back to as already existing achievements of living developments.

The Universal Father speaks to the Integration of the Finites with Infinity:

"I am the Father, and I see Ron quite exercised by a thread that gives no credence to what you have been taught in the Fifth epochal Revelation.  He is right to be upset by people who talk about things they have better time to do elsewhere with persons who are not enlightened.  But persons on this Forum are enlightened and do not use their learning to discuss intelligently various aspects of life in a time universe where I, the Father, keep my nose out of.  Speaking of discussions, where are the discussions on Finite Integration that are also in the Urantia Book, and why does Ron ignore them in his discussions with you?  The answer is Ron already knows them backwards and forwards, but fails to understand none of you really do.  Paper 106 delves into Finite Integration, and while I invented the means to integrate evolutionary and Supreme values into my total universe, I have yet to see even Ron care to pronounce them to you.  Let me make a stab at them.  I created the Supreme Being to experience the finite creation with everyone of you.  It is the Supreme Being who reports to me and my Coordinates what has been achieved and what is left to be done.  That is the First Finite Integration motion.

"The Second Finite Integration Motion I instituted was to provide the time Deities a direct link to God the Supreme, and insist those time Deities report up the ladder about their creations and administrations what is done and what is left to do.

"Tertiary Finite Integration was unrevealed at the time of the first writing of the Urantia Book, but it is now revealed.  Tertiary Finites are those doings and experiences that were duds.  The Lucifer Rebellion was a dud.  But how do we integrate a failure?  The answer is we DO NOT integrate duds.

"However we do have means and ways of taking real learning from Tertiary Finite duds which by themselves do not get worked into the fabric of the infinity of experience, but those who learn from it such as Michael and Mother of Nebadon, have a fully integrated means to share that information through the Primary Trinity of Trinities or the First Experiential Trinity coordinating the Absolutes with the existential revealments of God the Supreme and some of God the Ultimate.sd

"From the Foreward of the Urantia Book: "The original and eternal Paradise Trinity is existential and was inevitable. This never-beginning Trinity was inherent in the fact of the differentiation of the personal and the nonpersonal by the Father's unfettered will and factualized when his personal will co-ordinated these dual realities by mind. The post-Havona Trinities are experiential - are inherent in the creation of two subabsolute and evolutional levels of power-personality manifestation in the master universe.

"The first and second experiential Trinities, the post-Havona Trinities, cannot be infinite because they embrace derived Deities, Deities evolved by the experiential actualization of realities created or eventuated by the existential Paradise Trinity. Infinity of divinity is being ever enriched, if not enlarged, by finity and absonity of creature and Creator experience."
The Father continues speaking - "I am not posting much more than this for you to understand since most of you do not exert the effort to learn deep conceptual thinking as produced by the Fifth Epochal Revelation.  Some of you do, but you rarely exercise it here.

"I state that the universe integration of all levels of reality in my universe of universes is through Paradise evolution of thought passed up to it through the experiences and learning of the Supreme Creators and their subordinates, and that includes mortals who have achieved what Ron has through fusion and personal integration with a Thought Adjuster.  This brings me yet to the third way I integrate time and the finite life into universe learning for everyone include the Absolutes  and into Infinity itself:

"I refer to Thought Adjusters indwelling finite beings like humans and others unknown to you who report up to me to tell me what personally has to be done and what personally is to be finished later.  I use these reports to determine as to what level I bring to Missions such as Urantia and how far I should go in correcting planets like Urantia."

Ron:  We have so far reminded those of you who get into discussions of type introduced in this thread above of what else the writers of opinions should include in their reviews of their opinions.

Worry about the application of compossibility opposed to speculating about impossible errors made by Father in handling gross accidents and failures in time.

Worry about how the universe routinely integrates finite reality with Havona and with the existential Deities in the promulgation of Infinite to the Universe of Universes.  It is there, but you have to dig it out with a conscious effort to explain it and learn it.

There is yet a third conceptual area I must mention I hear no one work on in any discussion:  Thought Adjuster integration in individual lives and the meaning of the whole, which our Adjusters take into consideration before doing anything for us!!!

That information and plenty more are parts of the Urantia Book we already have, and I see not the failure of revelation on Urantia, so much as the failure of attitudes of God loving mortals to dismiss all efforts to educate them in the true fashion of the Melchizedek Universities do on high and which many of you will be forced to attend and explain yourselves as to the behavior so far elicited on Urantia of just plain bad habits and quite frequently as: "I have no time to help myself spiritually."

I do my work too, and there are times I skip doing harder work because I am tired of it.  But I have never forgiven myself for not answering more of these threads in an attempt to smooth over my incredulity about how easily satisfied some are to discuss huge concepts without factual support.  Mantutia Melchizedek is hear to put an ice pack on my head:

Mantutia Melchizedek - "There, there, Ron.  Take it easy for ol' dad in the cracker barrel store just sittin' on the old pickle barrel.  Be aware we have commanded on high all that needs to be done with the new Urantia Book and it will be read for a change or no one gets supported to be on a level to work the Magisterial Mission with us.  Of all the defaults on Urantia is the lack of respect for God and for his revelations.  God never asks for much from unenlightened individuals but he does ask compliance to learn the revelations he prefers to be made to Urantia now.  I am Mantutia and I am a respecter of persons on this discussion list yet I know some of you hardly are conscious of the spirit hierarchy or the way God works.  Ron gave you the basics above along with the Father who saw to a much simplified discourse on universe integration.  We dare not be that simple in writing a revelatory text, but Father cuts right through the red tape when acting as mendation specialist Metatron.

"I am making no promises for the future; however, I am stating that the forecast for the new Urantia Book to be published by year's end is to be put back another year anyway, and we will let the old book find its way around until the new version is ready to go.  Already Ron has  found us a marvelous translator for Chinese books and the rest will be history when such an individual has others to speed up his work for us.  Ron also finds the translator worthy of much and will bring him  to York for other work as his assistant when the time comes.  With regard to others we must bring to York at this time, we hold them well and will favor them with a schedule very close to what we promised earlier this month.

"Universe integration is as important as universe expansion and both go on together.  Finite integration is the least complicated of the proposed Universe of Universes modifications being prepared for the work of the Ultimate and Absolute experiential Deities, and so many of you  are so far behind in learning anything about it you may be left behind when we must take those who do know something about it,  to take and move them quickly into a new destiny already prepared for Sue and Ron and a few others you know here.  Meanwhile here is Michael to conclude these remarks."

Michael of Nebadon - "The integration of the Universe of Universes is a serious subject, but all must consider their refusal to use the gifts of revelation in your day  and as  a serious setback to your own spiritual development.  Ron has done his work and asks only that you  be reminded that the benefit of knowing these things far outweighs the pleasure of doing nothing.  You no longer have the Urantia Foundation promoting your learning and thank God for that, but you have yourselves and groups of people under Donna Lynn and others on this discussion forum who  could help.  Nonetheless, not only are the Agondonters being released from their singular positions on Urantia very soon, they will also be required to teach to hold onto their status now.  Those who do not help will be relived of Agondonter status by me.  You  all are required to learn  as  much as possible in the coming days and then to attend classes as I may direct in the future.  You Ron have a circuit problem at times that removes typing help but your persevere quite well as this transcript shows.  Be aware everyone that the Teaching Mission transcripts are archived to date as required.  I also point out that Ron is missing one but will take it to the archive shortly and be done with archiving for a few days as we repair  his right leg amputation and left leg repair.  A  stent broke in his right leg and made it impossible for him to place his weight on it to walk for nearly two days.

"I  add an addendum to this post which is far off subject; however, it  is  important to know that the trial for the Missions is over.  Serara has returned as Chief Justice of the Urantia Supreme Court, and as Chief of the Magisterial Mission for National Governments, Banking and other financial considerations.  Her also is insisting that Ron remain chcief of  Human Staff and he will.  His Apostleship is assured and we nominate  him Chief of Staff for Jesus as well.  Nobody here questions why Ron is so silent some days, and that is because we had him believing that the Magisterial Mission was so changed he would not recognize it when it hit the ground.  That is just not true, but we learned that Ron was happy to do with what was ever left to do for a human and that has made Jesus happy.  Our work for the Missions is ready and the signal is  given to start.  Be aware of your own hearts and  souls in flight to  us soon."
Ron - I have deleted remarks by Peter the Apostle, and Paul of Tarsus my friend and his, and a lot of others who wanted to add an addendum to this post on the discussion about Father revising his thinking as possible error.  You make sure you do not get into that kind of thinking ever, for the Father does not dabble in time, He makes not decisions about time before the Creator Sons and Daughters do, and the Father Himself is never in error on anything ever even as Infinite or Absolute as the case may be.  Errors happen in time, but they are not generally the result of Supremacy or of Paradise origin Deity working in time.  Learning is evidence of imperfection of the personality and must be given credit for what it does regardless of how much it knows or does not know.  The Lucifer Rebellion was an error of  several personalities who perpetuated the rebellion even when counseled by Perfection to undo their choices and come clean.  Father did not make those decisions for them, nor did Michael counsel otherwise but to admit error and receive correction.  Arguments even above us sometime use the reasoning some of you do in  this narrative, but all such assumptions as to Deity error in the local universe of Nebadon are false.

End
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LarryG

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Re: In Service and Love
« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2016, 07:37:59 AM »
My deepest  thanks and gratitude for these inspiring and informative messages from the Father Himself, Michael , Mantutia  and Ron in this thread.  Since the Father  mentioned this valuable information in   the Forward of  our Urantia Book,  I am making it a project and goal today and tomorrow to  go back and reread  the entire Forward with the questions posed in this thread as a backdrop for consideration.   I have to admit that parts of the Forward  have always presented  some challenges in my understanding and I keep thinking  that one day I will achieve a breakthrough and have an "epiphany"  with the  parts that so  far escape and allude my understanding and realization.    Perhaps  today will be that  day!!   I pray so!.....LarryG
"What you are today is not so important as what you are becoming day by day so Let us be about the Father's Business"

waforbes100

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[Hear Ye!!] Re: In Service and Love
« Reply #26 on: June 30, 2016, 11:56:00 AM »
Ok now; I will brave the possibility of error, stern correction, and even outright rebuke - if not full rejection! (Deep breath....) >>

Michael of Nebadon, Himself, has stated above "Our work for the Missions IS READY and the signal is  given to start." (emphases mine)!

Glory, glory, hallelujah!!

In case, you, my dear reader/fellow-member/guest wish to question my grip on reality here (  ;D ), I would just like to point out that NEVER BEFORE in any previous announcements has there been the declaration statement that "the signal is given to start"! That, my friend(s) can't be beat!
While I acknowledge that it is possible for a signal to be given to a team that isn't ready, I would also like to counter that notion in this case by further pointing out/highlighting the preceding clause "Our work for the Missions IS READY" !!

So what's my point? No matter how you slice or dice it, this time is the MOST LIKELY TIME EVER (in the time period of past-to-present) for The Missions to commence. As a matter of fact, it's minutes before mid-day, so I had better hurry and complete this post before noon catches me here! ;D

@Ron: today could must be that day!

All Love & Joyous Glee,
Walt


Ron: Walt you only hope for what we hope.  You are hidebound though to observe the greater truth which is that spirit adheres to the truth of doing things first and time follows.  Think about that for some while as you also think, as I do, 'where the heck do they come up with a time schedule I saw could not be met and have the material realm ready to receive them?'  I make no excuses as I have given up for what is not showing or seen with explanations as to why not.  But remember an airplane to land for the missions of people on it when they get off it, is a delicate job at best to bring 'her down without providing concussions to the traveling public.  The Serara plane and the Jesus jet have make approaches to land and have to go around again to get the right conditions.  Meanwhile you just wait and hope you live long enough to see the planes taxi to the their respective gates.  Amen.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 02:38:42 PM by Ron Besser »

ASSALE

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Re: In Service and Love
« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2016, 05:50:09 PM »
Read and saved.
Thank you all both Celestials and Urantians for this MUST.
Thank you for the Classroom of the Spirit.

waforbes100

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Re: In Service and Love
« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2016, 05:57:37 PM »
Oh dear & beloved Ron! You have here been most gracious to me; and for this I am grateful and in your debt. I thank you for being so warm and understanding.

I have calmed down my expectations for anything happening today - BUT when I sleep tonight, I shall keep one eye open (don't ask me how: I shall find a way)! ;) - Ok, ok, I jest a little.

Joking aside, I am fascinated at the gods' profound and unrelenting proclivity to share dates with us - or to use human language expressions that emphasize to Their audience (us), immediacy or extreme imminence. I am open to the possibility that there is some component in the human energy of anticipation that positively impacts Them in a way we mortals are unable to imagine - or at least, have not yet imagined. What disadvantage would They incur if They ceased giving dates?

I even remember how on one of the intended Eve of the Advent (Christmas of 2014), that the Celestial complaint was that there weren't sufficient mortals anticipating Their Arrival. I don't remember verbatim, however, the suggestion in that complaint was that They were pulling back for fear of a poor reception. In that transmission, you attempted to persuade Them that such concern was unwarranted (and They should still come). However, I'm not focused on the reason itself, but rather, I am intrigued by the component of expression suggesting Their attachment to human anticipation.

We know that for sons/daughters (and Sons/Daughters) of Faith, "believing is seeing" (as opposed to the old, cynical adage "seeing is believing"). Perhaps it's Their way of aiming to turn faith into sight.

After so many pre-announcements, I'm sure there is a revelatory/profound reason for such. What disadvantage(s) would They incur if They ceased giving dates? Do you have any insights/thoughts on this?

All Love & Gratitude,
Walt
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 06:00:55 PM by waforbes100 »

gilligan

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Re: In Service and Love
« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2016, 07:49:14 PM »
Brother Walt,
You quote: After so many pre-announcements, I'm sure there is a revelatory/profound reason for such. What disadvantage(s) would They incur if They ceased giving dates? Do you have any insights/thoughts on this?

My response: Imagine if you will they said to you it will happen when it happens. We mere mortals are only here for such a short time with many things to accomplish in that short period. If we had eternity to live that might change our patience level some...but with the condition this world is in & the fact we live such short lives...how many people do you think would make the commitment?
I myself have become very confused my brother....I do not know what to think any more....quite sad actually.
All love & Respect,

gilligan