Author Topic: Nuclear History Partially Known on Urantia - Scenario Forecast  (Read 1997 times)

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MidiChlorian

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Re: Nuclear History Partially Known on Urantia - Scenario Forecast
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2017, 02:04:32 PM »

[. . .]
It did not before occur to me that the solutions to our (Urantia's) nuclear situation might include the manipulation of time! Brilliant!
[. . .]
This situation has already occurred where it was reported in the Urantia Book that Lucifer was accused of short-circuiting time, and that the outcome of the rebellion was a thousand times more positive than might have been expected.  Nevertheless it might seem that some have been watching to many reruns of "Back to the Future" one through three, but either way it already has occurred and if one were to pay attention to current events, one might also understand that there has been much mentioned in the news of late regarding "Nuclear Options" where its main emphasis was used in the US Senate, where changing of rules in order to push through partisan mandates was the primary use of this term "Nuclear Option" which in the future will backfire, on much needed changes that will not be confirmed due to backhanded politics.  That was the real nuclear problem.  However, going back in the past at this time would cause a larger problem then what was performed in the past and if those Celestial's really understood "time" they wouldn't play around with something that they do not understand because their spirit existence could easily be changed for the worse or even destroyed. According to the narration's of the UB, Lucifer was the only one who was brilliant enough to pull it off, and made this way by order of our Father who knew the past, present and future. It would be difficult to comprehend what our Fathers plan is by those who do not have the intellectual capacity to even think beyond their current existence. If you cannot see the changes currently going on, then it is obvious that one cannot comprehend the future from the past, which is well documented, should one only be able to remember.  That is the paradox of the human mind. To make predictions without specific examples is just human speculation.      
The Reality of knowing what Wisdom is, is in the Experiencing of the Philosophy of using Knowledge.

niant2

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Re: Nuclear History Partially Known on Urantia - Scenario Forecast
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2017, 02:59:56 PM »
@Assale, What software do you use to read your file with the extension "WVE"?
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ASSALE

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Re: Nuclear History Partially Known on Urantia - Scenario Forecast
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2017, 03:07:21 PM »
VLC. But in a few minutes you'll have the MP4 format. Please wait.
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ASSALE

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Re: Nuclear History Partially Known on Urantia - Scenario Forecast
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2017, 03:09:17 PM »
Niant, you shoud be able to open it with VLC. I'm producing the MP4 format, you'll have it in a few minutes.
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overmind

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Re: Nuclear History Partially Known on Urantia - Scenario Forecast
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2017, 09:03:30 PM »

[. . .]
It did not before occur to me that the solutions to our (Urantia's) nuclear situation might include the manipulation of time! Brilliant!
[. . .]
This situation has already occurred where it was reported in the Urantia Book that Lucifer was accused of short-circuiting time, and that the outcome of the rebellion was a thousand times more positive than might have been expected.  Nevertheless it might seem that some have been watching to many reruns of "Back to the Future" one through three, but either way it already has occurred and if one were to pay attention to current events, one might also understand that there has been much mentioned in the news of late regarding "Nuclear Options" where its main emphasis was used in the US Senate, where changing of rules in order to push through partisan mandates was the primary use of this term "Nuclear Option" which in the future will backfire, on much needed changes that will not be confirmed due to backhanded politics.  That was the real nuclear problem.  However, going back in the past at this time would cause a larger problem then what was performed in the past and if those Celestial's really understood "time" they wouldn't play around with something that they do not understand because their spirit existence could easily be changed for the worse or even destroyed. According to the narration's of the UB, Lucifer was the only one who was brilliant enough to pull it off, and made this way by order of our Father who knew the past, present and future. It would be difficult to comprehend what our Fathers plan is by those who do not have the intellectual capacity to even think beyond their current existence. If you cannot see the changes currently going on, then it is obvious that one cannot comprehend the future from the past, which is well documented, should one only be able to remember.  That is the paradox of the human mind. To make predictions without specific examples is just human speculation.      

Short-circuiting time in your example was never meant literally. Lucifer worked to deprive people of the struggle to attain the status of light and life, both individually and collectively. He essentially ignored the value of experiencing the perfecting process, making the slow crawl of advancement out to be a nuisance in the universe. He didn't directly mess with time, but what humans and celestials were doing in time by altering how free will could be expressed. He did this under the masquerade of greater personal liberty while in reality he limited freedom by working to create a division between God and His children.
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MidiChlorian

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Re: Nuclear History Partially Known on Urantia - Scenario Forecast
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2017, 10:06:06 PM »
Short-circuiting time in your example was never meant literally. Lucifer worked to deprive people of the struggle to attain the status of light and life, both individually and collectively. He essentially ignored the value of experiencing the perfecting process, making the slow crawl of advancement out to be a nuisance in the universe. He didn't directly mess with time, but what humans and celestials were doing in time by altering how free will could be expressed. He did this under the masquerade of greater personal liberty while in reality he limited freedom by working to create a division between God and His children.
The status of "light and life" is an individual achievement and when enough have acquired this status then they become a collective.  There is no collective other than an oppression of individual souls by the minority.  "experiencing the perfecting process" assumes that there is a definition for perfection other than the One who is perfect, and an individuals perfection is limited by the total experience received by living within the darkness of each soul by overcoming this darkness by accepting the light, also within.  There is no free will without choice and to choose between what has been given is no choice at all unless one has the ability to create other choices to choose from. The universe is what we are told it is not what we have experienced in the now.  Therefore, if we can assume that the now is what the universe actually is, then do we not need to change the now in order to change the universe.  One's memory is time, and if you cannot remember that which others may see as having changed, then one can only assume that the past does not exist, because one's Thought Adjuster has performed their task.  Why else call it an adjuster if not to alter the minds understanding of time.  
The Reality of knowing what Wisdom is, is in the Experiencing of the Philosophy of using Knowledge.

waforbes100

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Re: Nuclear History Partially Known on Urantia - Scenario Forecast
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2017, 10:28:49 PM »
@MidiChlorian: many thanks for sharing your insights on the non-precedence of time manipulation - and by a being with less than divine intentions, no less!!

However, although the exploration of your assertion that Lucifer manipulated time is a [disconcertingly] exciting hypothesis to follow, project from, and/or extrapolate to, I must admit that Overmind's rebuttal to your example seems more plausible. If Overmind's position is right, then you and I can thank God that Lucifer [apparently] didn't have the ability to manipulate time...yes?

Well, I should first ask you: do you now concede to Overmind's position on the specific point that Lucifer's short-circuiting of time was not literal?

QUESTION: @Overmind/MidiChlorian (or anyone so inclined to answer): given that The Father is the originator and disseminator of personality, does the expression of personality in ALL personality agents (including Lucifer and Caligastia) manifest some aspect of The Father's Infinite Personality?

All Love & Gratitude,
Walt

Ron Hammar

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Re: Nuclear History Partially Known on Urantia - Scenario Forecast
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2017, 11:17:21 PM »
Hi Walt,

To your question:
Quote
in ALL personality agents (including Lucifer and Caligastia) manifest some aspect of The Father's Infinite Personality?
I feel that the aspect of the Father's Personality would be in the spiritual values that were given to The Supreme Being, all others would be not spiritual and from a Rabid mind that was going into 'cosmic insanity'

My spin

Ron H

overmind

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Re: Nuclear History Partially Known on Urantia - Scenario Forecast
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2017, 12:43:11 AM »

Quote
QUESTION: @Overmind/MidiChlorian (or anyone so inclined to answer): given that The Father is the originator and disseminator of personality, does the expression of personality in ALL personality agents (including Lucifer and Caligastia) manifest some aspect of The Father's Infinite Personality?

I think the personalization of humans and celestials exists through different processes. I feel that the nature of spirit personalities has more to do with their parents, so in this case Michael would be bestowing the personality to his creation. However, this is not how I remember the human process, which seems to be a direct act of the Father, which certainly makes sense since we are later indwelled by fragments of the Father. I feel that if the Thought Adjuster is to be successful in working with the personality, it is best that the Father is the source of the personality as well. You just have to remember the UB's vague definitions on what personality is and that it does not guarantee misbehavior. All personality begins in a pure state. It is the circumstances the individual faces that corrupt it - environment, education, experience, and even genetics and disorders. The human side of evil is a lot simpler for us to understand than the spiritual side because the nature in which Descending and Ascending Sons learn and grow vastly differs. I would also add that personality in the universe is a small reflection of what God is able to create in general. The Father's personality is complete. Combining everything in the universe does not really add to the Father. Instead, it contributes to the growth of the Supreme Being, though I wouldn't say the Supreme is merely a conglomerate of all beings. It merely gains from the growth of such a conglomerate. Keep in my this is just my quick response right before I go to sleep. I'm not doing any research.
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Ron Besser

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Re: Nuclear History Partially Known on Urantia - Scenario Forecast
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2017, 10:36:08 AM »
Dear List,
Personality is of different types.  Human personality is strictly finite and does not reverse anything into the infinity except as by associated with the Universal Father, who bestows personality upon us, as he may use the personality circuit to do more than finite manipulation of one or several human personalities on Urantia.

Remember, it is the personality circuit that each of you enjoin to understand human contact and personal devotion to God.  Otherwise your personalities stop at the Supreme and no more than that as the Father is not about to spread any aspect of the existential art of administration to humans on any evolutionary planet.


With regard to the personalities of Lucifer and Satan and even Caligastia, Michael reports they are not finite but those discussions are relegated to Paradise these days due to the Lucifer Rebellion.  I am not privy to those insights and find discussing them is like discussing an old inner tube - there is nothing there of any use anymore.  They had nothing to do with infinite calculations in Satania and that is directly from Michael.

-Ron-

Michael of Nebadon - "Now that Ron is out of the circuit on this issue, I tell you there is nothing in all of the Local Universe I would not do to bring Lucifer and Caligastia back to examine the record with them and let them tell me how they got to the place they had to be executed.  Personality endowment had nothing to do with it Ron Hammar or Overmind or MidiChlorian, but it did have everything to do with the House that Jack built on Urantia in that I had not real idea this was brewing until it happened and that is that.  Be aware Gabriel did, but that is another story all by itself someday to tell or teach on Urantia.  Right now we are building a horrible Magisterial Mission to clear Urantia of the sin and iniquity that keeps bearing down on Urantia and WE WILL clear it completely at some point.  Good day."

« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 10:37:56 AM by Ron Besser »
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MidiChlorian

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Re: Nuclear History Partially Known on Urantia - Scenario Forecast
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2017, 06:48:51 PM »
@MidiChlorian: many thanks for sharing your insights on the non-precedence of time manipulation - and by a being with less than divine intentions, no less!!

However, although the exploration of your assertion that Lucifer manipulated time is a [disconcertingly] exciting hypothesis to follow, project from, and/or extrapolate to, I must admit that Overmind's rebuttal to your example seems more plausible. If Overmind's position is right, then you and I can thank God that Lucifer [apparently] didn't have the ability to manipulate time...yes?

I can understand your position "waforbes100" but one fails to consider that the Father of All can and does manipulate anything, even the perception of "time" through whomever He wishes too.  That being said, should He wish to work through Lucifer, or anyone else, for that matter, His Will, will be done.  Fore it was Jesus who, as mentioned in the Urantia Book, even though presented in language which can be better understood today, indicated that Our Father is responsible for many personalities which have functioned through and by His will.


Quote
(1914.4) 176:2.3 In further answer to Peter’s question, Jesus said: “Why do you still look for the Son of Man to sit upon the throne of David and expect that the material dreams of the Jews will be fulfilled? Have I not told you all these years that my kingdom is not of this world? The things which you now look down upon are coming to an end, but this will be a new beginning out of which the gospel of the kingdom will go to all the world and this salvation will spread to all peoples. And when the kingdom shall have come to its full fruition, be assured that the Father in heaven will not fail to visit you with an enlarged revelation of truth and an enhanced demonstration of righteousness, even as he has already bestowed upon this world him who became the prince of darkness, and then Adam, who was followed by Melchizedek, and in these days, the Son of Man. And so will my Father continue to manifest his mercy and show forth his love, even to this dark and evil world. So also will I, after my Father has invested me with all power and authority, continue to follow your fortunes and to guide in the affairs of the kingdom by the presence of my spirit, who shall shortly be poured out upon all flesh. Even though I shall thus be present with you in spirit, I also promise that I will sometime return to this world, where I have lived this life in the flesh and achieved the experience of simultaneously revealing God to man and leading man to God. Very soon must I leave you and take up the work the Father has intrusted to my hands, but be of good courage, for I will sometime return. In the meantime, my Spirit of the Truth of a universe shall comfort and guide you.

Where in the narration above, Jesus indicates that the "Father in Heaven will not fail to visit you", in that even though Our Father may not physically appear before you but through others whom He so chooses to be His vessel at, or in, that moment of "time".  Where, Jesus indicates that Our Father has bestowed Himself, upon this world, or within who became: Caligastia (the prince of darkness), Adam, Melchizedek and Jesus Himself, as the Son of Man.  Whether through a fragment from within or the spirit influence from within, Our Father may manipulate through time the bestowal of Himself into others, even if these others may seem to function or perform differently in order to act out the Will of God, as Our Father sees fit to do. Our Father will not subject those to something which He is not willing to share in the responsibility of whatever outcome may occur.  Since Our Father exists without time, and we live within Him, He is not subject to what we think time is or may be but, to those who know Our Father, He has revealed His time to us, in such a way through our memories, which by knowing God, our memories are His as He wishes us to know.



Keeping in mind that even Lucifer, is a vessel which Our Father may visit or manipulate to His Will, who are we to assume that something is not possible, and if one has heard that Lucifer indicated that Our Father is not resident, only to paradise, then those who believe otherwise may be asked, how is it possible for Our Father to also be here with us, from time to time?  It has been mentioned in the UB that Our Father has escaped His imprisonment from Paradise, through means which seem to otherwise not understood by His Sons who imprisoned Him through their words and deeds.          

Well, I should first ask you: do you now concede to Overmind's position on the specific point that Lucifer's short-circuiting of time was not literal?
No, I do not concede, because it is apparent that "Overmind" has his own literal interpretation of what has been stated in the Urantia Book, and this is his prerogative.  The problem becomes apparent when a literal interpretation is presented without sufficient religious experience to validate or augment such a literal interpretation.  



Even those who present the words of God, and His Sons, here on this forum, must be weighed with the addition of prideful supplemental narrations which are intended to validate to themselves that which is from their own mind and thoughts.  Although, Lucifer was diagnosed with the same type of prideful presentations, they were presented in the UB as third party opinions and not actually quoted by record, because these records were destroyed.  Therefore, if there is truth within these accusations why destroy any records which may be the object of proof, rather than presenting subjective evidence which cannot be validated?    

QUESTION: @Overmind/MidiChlorian (or anyone so inclined to answer): given that The Father is the originator and disseminator of personality, does the expression of personality in ALL personality agents (including Lucifer and Caligastia) manifest some aspect of The Father's Infinite Personality?

One cannot answer this question because the proposed "given" is incorrect, where "The Father" is the source but not the "disseminator of personality," however an "expression of personality in ALL personality agents" would also be unqualified based on the principle of the formation of personality, which is a composite of individual factors, where experience plays a major factor.


Quote
(9.1) 0:5.11 Personality. The personality of mortal man is neither body, mind, nor spirit; neither is it the soul. Personality is the one changeless reality in an otherwise ever-changing creature experience; and it unifies all other associated factors of individuality. The personality is the unique bestowal which the Universal Father makes upon the living and associated energies of matter, mind, and spirit, and which survives with the survival of the morontial soul.

However, since personality is a gift, by the "Universal Father" as a form of "energies" it has, for the most part, been imbedded in most humans as the embryonic "morontial soul" which is also a surviving piece of a previous living existence. Nevertheless, personality is also present in those who we associate to spiritual beings, however can be more fully experienced when associated to material beings, where a person's ability to feel makes a more proficient effect on mind.

Quote
(10.2) 0:6.10 PATTERN can be projected as material, spiritual, or mindal, or any combination of these energies. It can pervade personalities, identities, entities, or nonliving matter. But pattern is pattern and remains pattern; only copies are multiplied.

(10.3) 0:6.11 Pattern may configure energy, but it does not control it. Gravity is the sole control of energy-matter. Neither space nor pattern are gravity responsive, but there is no relationship between space and pattern; space is neither pattern nor potential pattern. Pattern is a configuration of reality which has already paid all gravity debt; the reality of any pattern consists of its energies, its mind, spirit, or material components.

(10.4) 0:6.12 In contrast to the aspect of the total, pattern discloses the individual aspect of energy and of personality. Personality or identity forms are patterns resultant from energy (physical, spiritual, or mindal) but are not inherent therein. That quality of energy or of personality by virtue of which pattern is caused to appear may be attributed to God — Deity — to Paradise force endowment, to the coexistence of personality and power.

(10.5) 0:6.13 Pattern is a master design from which copies are made. Eternal Paradise is the absolute of patterns; the Eternal Son is the pattern personality; the Universal Father is the direct ancestor-source of both. But Paradise does not bestow pattern, and the Son cannot bestow personality.

Therefore, it is more likely that the personality of Lucifer and Caligastia, have been influenced by the local universes Creator Son, where each as individuals have their own experiences and are ultimately influenced by Our Universal Father.  
« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 07:01:32 PM by MidiChlorian »
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overmind

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Re: Nuclear History Partially Known on Urantia - Scenario Forecast
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2017, 08:34:58 PM »
Quote

Quote
(1914.4) 176:2.3 In further answer to Peter’s question, Jesus said: “Why do you still look for the Son of Man to sit upon the throne of David and expect that the material dreams of the Jews will be fulfilled? Have I not told you all these years that my kingdom is not of this world? The things which you now look down upon are coming to an end, but this will be a new beginning out of which the gospel of the kingdom will go to all the world and this salvation will spread to all peoples. And when the kingdom shall have come to its full fruition, be assured that the Father in heaven will not fail to visit you with an enlarged revelation of truth and an enhanced demonstration of righteousness, even as he has already bestowed upon this world him who became the prince of darkness, and then Adam, who was followed by Melchizedek, and in these days, the Son of Man. And so will my Father continue to manifest his mercy and show forth his love, even to this dark and evil world. So also will I, after my Father has invested me with all power and authority, continue to follow your fortunes and to guide in the affairs of the kingdom by the presence of my spirit, who shall shortly be poured out upon all flesh. Even though I shall thus be present with you in spirit, I also promise that I will sometime return to this world, where I have lived this life in the flesh and achieved the experience of simultaneously revealing God to man and leading man to God. Very soon must I leave you and take up the work the Father has intrusted to my hands, but be of good courage, for I will sometime return. In the meantime, my Spirit of the Truth of a universe shall comfort and guide you.

Where in the narration above, Jesus indicates that the "Father in Heaven will not fail to visit you", in that even though Our Father may not physically appear before you but through others whom He so chooses to be His vessel at, or in, that moment of "time".  Where, Jesus indicates that Our Father has bestowed Himself, upon this world, or within who became: Caligastia (the prince of darkness), Adam, Melchizedek and Jesus Himself, as the Son of Man.  Whether through a fragment from within or the spirit influence from within, Our Father may manipulate through time the bestowal of Himself into others, even if these others may seem to function or perform differently in order to act out the Will of God, as Our Father sees fit to do. Our Father will not subject those to something which He is not willing to share in the responsibility of whatever outcome may occur.  Since Our Father exists without time, and we live within Him, He is not subject to what we think time is or may be but, to those who know Our Father, He has revealed His time to us, in such a way through our memories, which by knowing God, our memories are His as He wishes us to know.


Keeping in mind that even Lucifer, is a vessel which Our Father may visit or manipulate to His Will, who are we to assume that something is not possible, and if one has heard that Lucifer indicated that Our Father is not resident, only to paradise, then those who believe otherwise may be asked, how is it possible for Our Father to also be here with us, from time to time?  It has been mentioned in the UB that Our Father has escaped His imprisonment from Paradise, through means which seem to otherwise not understood by His Sons who imprisoned Him through their words and deeds.         

The text is implying that God bestowed others on the planet, naturally with the intention of them following God's will by doing their given job, and technically it is the Nebadon government or Michael that makes such individual decisions. It does not say the Father functions directly through the given beings. Neither people nor the celestials are beings that the Father can take control over remotely to fulfill a goal, like remote controlled toys. Your description invalidates the free will concept by allowing Deity to manipulate finite creatures -- to supersede them. Even as the Adjuster indwells a human, the human's decisions are not nullified. They are simply shown better options as they grow and act in the world. In fact, the Adjuster is pre-personal so that the human personality is capable of being free or existing at all. Even when I have been physically indwelled by the spirit of the Trinity, my free will did not disappear. After all, it is that will that makes the ascension journey meaningful. There is no point to our existence without it.
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waforbes100

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Re: Nuclear History Partially Known on Urantia - Scenario Forecast
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2017, 09:24:08 PM »
RonH, Overmind, RonB, MidiChlorian (order of responses): I am humbled (but not yet satisfied) by the depth, range, and sophistication of your responses; and I am challenged to respond at the level required - NONETHELESS - I am compelled to respond because my soul is in medium conflict with components of your responses. I will make distinctions where necessary.

Disclaimer: I fully accept that my disagreements are likely due to my ignorance or limitation in understanding; thus I entreat that what follows below be considered a request for clarification/guidance/education. Here goes...

Overmind says "I think the personalization of humans and celestials exists through different processes..."; and  >
Ron says "Otherwise your personalities stop at the Supreme and no more than that as the Father is not about to spread any aspect of the existential art of administration to humans on any evolutionary planet..." -  but...
MidiChlorian, who seems to come closest to my current understanding of personality yet diverges in saying "where "The Father" is the source but not the "disseminator of personality,"... ", and now...
I'm stating (with evidence in tow) that there is strong indication in TUB that personality source and bestowal is a Father-only prerogative:

"6:5.3 (77.6) Personality is the exclusive gift of the Universal Father. The Eternal Son derives personality from the Father, but he does not, without the Father, bestow personality."
- which is further supported by the underlined portion of the following TUB quote: "0:6.13 (10.5) Pattern is a master design from which copies are made. Eternal Paradise is the absolute of patterns; the Eternal Son is the pattern personality; the Universal Father is the direct ancestor-source of both. But Paradise does not bestow pattern, and the Son cannot bestow personality."

Further reading of 6:5. makes further clarification that the above quotes do allow that The Son is Creator to a vast spirit host , yet bestows personality on none, except in co-creative/conjoint action.

Point of Admission: I do find and acknowledge apparent contradiction in the stated Father exclusivity of personality bestowal by statements indicating that The Infinite Spirit "bestows [non-Father] personality" in His own behalf, and that He "bestows Third Source personality upon numerous groups who are not included in The Father's personality circuit" (example: Power Directors) - see TUB 9:8.9 & 9:8.11

NONETHELESS (Assertion 1), there is adequate clarity to firmly state that the Lucifer's, Satan's, and Caligastia's source of personality is The Father...yes?

It is interesting to note the [pre-rebellion] record on Caligastia (TUB 66:1.4) stating "Caligastia went forth from Jerusem to his trust of world dominion with an enviable record of  loyalty and devotion to the welfare of the universe of his origin and sojourn, notwithstanding a certain characteristic restlessness coupled with a tendency to disagree with the established order in certain minor matters."

THEREFORE (Assertion 2): these 2 things (characteristic restlessness & tendency to disagree...) were personality traits. If true, then he was created with them - as opposed to 'environment, education, or experience' creating them, as Overmind seems to suggest. Bear in mind that environment, education, and experience merely influence the manifestation of personality traits - NOT their origin. Personality is changeless, as MidiChlorian has reminded us, pointing to TUB 0:5.11.

That the root cause of these high Sons' misadventure (gross understatement, I know) remains a mystery to Michael, per Ron's transmission, we are provided hint that their default has corners and angles of cause outside of the reality of this local universe!

Now this brings me to the grand and bold suggestion from MidiChlorian...; and instead of mincing words by beating around the bush, let me say it plainly and risk being terribly wrong: @MidiChlorian, you seem to assert that the individuals comprising the Trinity of Evil, in their personality expressions, including its countless machinations, were mere agents of The Father's Will! Did I read you correctly?

Presuming I'm correct in interpreting you, my response is the following: you sound that, like me, you've been reading a bit of Neale Donald Walsch (Conversations with God) ;D - who transmits 'God' in a series of NY Times Best Sellers. If you haven't read them, then I'll inform you: I'm referring to God's explanation for the existence of 'the darkness' - which in a nutshell is thus: no matter how infinitely wonderful (i.e. perfect in truth, beauty, and goodness) The Light is, it cannot be experienced as what it is in the absence of its opposites... God breaks it down something like this, 'In the absence of  that Which Is Not, that Which Is - is not!' (In the absence of darkness, light does not exist). Ultimately, rebellions (and their consequences) all prove to be the grandest of gifts - and only temporariy curses.

Therefore, brother MidiChlorian, if you're suggesting that the personalities of whom we know to be the Trinity of Evil were inserted into time-space reality for holy purpose, which they accomplished, then I will conditionally agree with you if your sentiment aligns with the assertion by Neale in CwG that I submitted in the above paragraph.

It is perhaps no coincidence that an impatient, restless, anti-authority, un-balanced Lanonandek Son was given jurisdiction over an especially predatorial and thus fear-ridden planet, inhabited by sentient beings that were appreciably below average intelligence, courage, and teachability for a human specie of such evolutionary years of age. The Perfect Storm, right? (or 'the perfect set-up') ;D

I do not fail to remember that to God, "...no cosmic event ever comes as a surprise..." (TUB 2:1.5).

At the same time, I must 51% (or more) accede to Overmind's interpretation of the TUB-Jesus quote concerning The Father visiting us in the 'bestowals' of His various high Sons (Lanonandek, Material Sons, Melchizedek, and Creator Son) - that this statement is with the implication of intention of Them doing His (Father's) Will - in terms of truth, beauty, and goodness - ON THE BASIS THAT (and I know MidiChlorian will agree with this basis) it was Jesus Who said it!
@MidiChlorian: you no doubt agree with me (and Overmind) that in Jesus' Mind at the time, He was circumscribing The Father's Will to include ONLY the true, the beautiful, and the good. Thus, to Jesus, The Father's bestowal of all these High Sons upon Urantia would have been only for the fulfilment of His Will in terms limited to what is true, beautiful, and good. Yes? Of course, I understand if you wanted to argue that there is yet a deeper truth (which Jesus was not then addressing) - that in absolute reality, NOTHING happens outside The Father's Will (per Neale D. Walsch/Conversations with God) - HOWEVER, since you quoted Jesus, we must circumscribe the discussion, which uses His words, to a meaning that He implied therein. Agreed?


Much Intrigued, and Even More Grateful,
Walt
« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 09:54:25 PM by waforbes100 »

Dorian

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Re: Nuclear History Partially Known on Urantia - Scenario Forecast
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2017, 09:51:16 PM »
I was glad to see that Overmind pointed out the main thing that we have been given and have been promised that no one, not even God will override, our "Free Will."   It is as he said, "our free will is sacrosanct, regarded as too important or valuable to be interfered with."   No one in all the Universes has the right to make you do something which is against your "Free Will".   It has been stated that God is not a respecter of a person, however he may step in for instance to save someone who is about to perish, not because he feels that person is more important than another person, but that that person has a special "Function" that he/she is to perform or be apart of.   God only exist in man through his gift of our personal Adjuster.   It's function is to assist us in making the right moral decisions so that we may move inward instead of outward or away from Paradise.   Every single decision has its own reaction that is the direct result of our causing such a decision to take place within our thinking and action.

If it was just a matter of God controlling us as puppets he could make his own plots and endings to every story instead of having the Supreme grow experientially through the exponential absorption of our free will acts.

At least this is my thinking,
Dorian

I was ready to post this when Walt's post came up.  I copied this "Assertion # 2) below because I think that Caligastia was not created with those traits, because we and spiritual entities develop those traits out of our differing egos.  Their exposure to others with like thoughts, like Lucifer's wanting to run everything his own way, attracted Caligastia into his camp and the rest is history.   Personality as given (received) may be changeless, meaning mine is the same as your when first received.  But like the talents, it is what we do with them that makes the personality after that a complete change from when it was received.    (just my thoughts)

THEREFORE (Assertion 2): these 2 things (characteristic restlessness & tendency to disagree...) were personality traits. If true, then he was created with them - as opposed to environment, education, or experience creating them, as Overmind seems to suggest. Bear in mind that environment, education, and experience merely influence the manifestation of personality traits - NOT their origin. Personality is changeless, as MidiChlorian has reminded us, pointing to TUB 0:5.11.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 09:53:38 PM by Dorian »
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LarryG

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Re: Nuclear History Partially Known on Urantia - Scenario Forecast
« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2017, 10:03:07 PM »
I have been reading, rereading and thinking about Ron's original post of this thread and had wanted to ask a few questions about it since Ron's  original post and the revelations from Michael are very very important for our understanding.  This thread is one of those revelations that we are so fortunate to have been given, yet they seem to have been tarnished a bit through the course of discussion.  However the direction,  byways,  and alleyways that this has now taken isn't from the perspective that I have been thinking about  and wanted to ask about.   If this  settles down soon I will try and get my questions together more precisely than I now have them so I can pose  my questions at a more opportune time since I am not really wanting to contribute to a debate and/or clash.  I can perhaps just send my comments and questions to Ron privately and hope my questions aren't too basic and simple for him to bother with.  I am a bit disappointed since I have been thinking about all this for a couple of days now....another lesson  presented to  learn.   LarryG
"What you are today is not so important as what you are becoming day by day so Let us be about the Father's Business"