Author Topic: PREAMBLE to Our Constitution rewritten as Draft by Ron Besser 081817  (Read 987 times)

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amethyst

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Re: PREAMBLE to Our Constitution rewritten as Draft by Ron Besser 081817
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2017, 12:48:55 AM »
Ron and all who posted here,
After Reading Ron's preamble and the comments of others, I feel that Ron's says it as it should be--not too verbose  or complex.  Its simplicity is its strength.  God's Will is to reign and that is that.  The more words it contains, the more ammunition it gives the legal eagles to find loopholes, although when the Magisterial Mission is in place, I'm sure their wings will be clipped quite a bit.


Ron, in your post to MidiChlorian said "...the Magisterial Mission gives no choice to creatures born on Urantia anymore.''  This is true as God's Will will be implemented as it must be. But God gives every human a free will and that means choice.  Just for clarification, I assume you are not saying we will not have free will?


But here is my concern and I wonder how it will be handled.  There are millions of people who love God and strive to do His Will every day, but they are so entrenched in their dogma that they will unable to recognize  that His Will IS being implemented.  They will be afraid.  They will need to be comforted and assured His Will is being done, but alas I think many truly God-loving people will not have the ability to let go of their dogma which has sustained their faith for so long.  So many will be traumatized.
Blessings,
Amethyst
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7inOcean

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Re: PREAMBLE to Our Constitution rewritten as Draft by Ron Besser 081817
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2017, 05:33:04 AM »
Dear Ron,
I'm sorry if I have placed "brothers" in the terms you state when I so very much favour the "family" spirit one or even better as you put it as in the use of the French version of "fraternity" which I love too. If that is what is intended by the use of " brothers" then I'm all very happy with this intention as you so well explained and I have no problems with this. I'm quite sure if the "brother" term is better defined as you have put it will be well received by all people.  Thank you so much for clarifying this and for making, not only myself,  but others who may have thought as I did for just an inchy weeny bit when all I intended was the "fraternal" sense and not at all the sexist view. And oh you are not wrong about how touchy this subject can be for those who strongly cling to the "women's rights" movements which I keep at arms length anyways! I'm too tomboyish to even bother! I'll stick with "brothers" thank you! And I think the new Preamble is beautifully worded and states the intentions of "We the people" very well.

Thank you,
Sue/7inOcean

LarryG

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Re: PREAMBLE to Our Constitution rewritten as Draft by Ron Besser 081817
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2017, 08:04:40 AM »
Amethyst and  others reading this


 Amethystyou wrote:
"As I  have read what Ron stated in this sentence:

Ron, in your post to MidiChlorian said "...the Magisterial Mission gives no choice to creatures born on Urantia anymore.''  This is true as God's Will will be implemented as it must be. But God gives every human a free will and that means choice.  Just for clarification, I assume you are not saying we will not have free will?"


I believe it means precisely what it says.   If you are truly going to  establish the Father's Kingdom and ONLY that as this Magisterial Mission will do, then this statement seems "literally" true.


 One of the primary functions of a Magisterial Mission is  the "Adjudication of the Realm" and just how that is accomplished and when, we don't necessarily know.   I have long thought that freewill will be "altered" here with the coming of and the creation of  the Father's Rule and Kingdom on Urantia., and quite honestly how could it be any other way?


If the "choice" is to choose to accept the Father's Will or not to make this choice, then whatever is chosen will have very specific results.   The length of time that man will be given to make this choice before the   Universal Courts, we do not know for that is up to our Universal  Administration and the Rule of  Universal Law and  Courts

.
Just my understanding of what has been said recently and in and  in the past.   I could be totally wrong and may have misinterpreted this.   I am sure Ron can clarify.....


I rejoice with you all as the New Spirit Of Truth  soon comes to this world....LarryG
« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 08:08:25 AM by LarryG »
"What you are today is not so important as what you are becoming day by day so Let us be about the Father's Business"

newstarsaphire

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Re: PREAMBLE to Our Constitution rewritten as Draft by Ron Besser 081817
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2017, 12:32:00 PM »
Let us keep in mind that it has been clarified in paper 118:9.2 of the current Urantia Book that “Man does not have unfettered free will; there are limits to his range of choice, but within the radius of this choice his will is relatively sovereign. “

If we think for a moment that we do not need the protection of the wisdom and acknowledgement of the will of the Father let us then consider the following:

"118:8.7.  The iniquity of Caligastia was the by-passing of the time governor of progressive human liberation—the gratuitous destruction of restraining barriers, barriers which the mortal minds of those times had not experientially overridden.


"118:8.8.  That mind which can effect a partial abridgment of time and space, by this very act proves itself possessed of the seeds of wisdom which can effectively serve in lieu of the transcended barrier of restraint.



118:8.9.  Lucifer similarly sought to disrupt the time governor operating in restraint of the premature attainment of certain liberties in the local system. A local system settled in light and life has experientially achieved those viewpoints and insights which make feasible the operation of many techniques that would be disruptive and destructive in the presettled eras of that very realm.

Interestingly it as noted in this excerpt from paper 117:4.14  “…as man loves God, so does man become eternal in actuality. And here is mystery: The more closely man approaches God through love, the greater the reality—actuality—of that man. The more man withdraws from God, the more nearly he approaches nonreality—cessation of existence. When man consecrates his will to the doing of the Father's will, when man gives God all that he has, then does God make that man more than he is.”  Does this not imply that the inherent consequence of man’s rejection of relationship with God leads to his own inability to exist?  Immortality is a potential conferred to us by God so it is not surprising that rejection of the source of immortality itself severs that possibility upon the termination of that mortals existence.

Will, liberty and wisdom perhaps have a larger contextual meaning than we are in the habit of considering.

Domtia

« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 02:44:56 PM by newstarsaphire »
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amethyst

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Re: PREAMBLE to Our Constitution rewritten as Draft by Ron Besser 081817
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2017, 12:37:05 PM »
Larry, I hope we will have some ability to choose, otherwise we would never be able to choose to do God's Will and to Love ; we would become compliant robots.  I certainly understand that our choices may become limited, but I sincerely hope we will have some choices.
Amethyst

To my wonderful Amethyst - Ron Besser writing in your post and I hope you see this too - Free will is not the subject of a national Constitution when it says its is formed under the privileges of God, as one nation of God implies.   Rather, when you say something like that, you are telling the world that highest ideals possible in the material world and with the spiritual world, are being announced and that the nation so formed under God this way seeks to know the will of God for what must be done for the good of all.  No one takes free will away ever and not all the people in the United States care whatsoever their county has as ideals, and it is they who must find God in their own way and enjoy the prosperity of one nation under God for the sake of all mankind on Urantia.  I have a lot more to say on this maybe tomorrow when I have time to think some more.  Your post was most welcomed by me.  Thank you.  Ron

Michael of Nebadon - "I too hope you see this before you pass it by so we make it a garish blue to notice it.  Ron has fought with me over what is public and what is private and he has it pretty well.  He dislikes very much the Press in the world which in the Untied States thinks it is the fourth estate, which it is not, and that is one of the themes we speak to tomorrow on this forum.  Thank you. Michael
« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 09:48:38 PM by Ron Besser »
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Amethyst
Ambynetty

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LarryG

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Re: PREAMBLE to Our Constitution rewritten as Draft by Ron Besser 081817
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2017, 12:39:40 PM »
Thank you  Phyllis and Amethyst ....freewill is often misunderstood and with the coming of these Missions that truly will establish once and forever the Kingdom of the Father  on Urantia, the perameters of freewill and choice may be changed or limited within acceptable  perameters.    Thanks for your research into our Urantia Book....LarryG
« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 04:07:45 PM by LarryG »
"What you are today is not so important as what you are becoming day by day so Let us be about the Father's Business"

Licha

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Re: PREAMBLE to Our Constitution rewritten as Draft by Ron Besser 081817
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2017, 06:12:05 PM »
Hello forum members, I've been absent for several months due to health issues and now I'm convalescing. My concentration has cleared a lot and find myself reading about the PREAMBLE to Our Constitution.

After thinking about it, I sincerely hope that the following is not out of context. Myself, I grew up in Mexico and never heard about differences in people and didn't know about discrimination. However, when I came to the United States that was a different situation. I decided to check what the Mexican Constitution said, and in the very first pages I came about the following. I'm also including a link to a PDF in English - and did not read more. I think the U.S. Constitution doesn't clarify about ethnic peoples and thus I'm pointing out what is missing in the current state of affairs.

"Mexico's Constitution of 1917 with Amendments through 2015

Title One
Chapter 1 – Human Rights and Guarantees

Article 1

In the United Mexican States, all individuals shall be entitled to the human rights granted by this Constitution and the international treaties signed by the Mexican State, as well as to the guarantees for the protection of these rights. Such human rights shall not be restricted or suspended, except for the cases and under the conditions established by this Constitution itself.

The provisions relating to human rights shall be interpreted according to this Constitution and the international treaties on the subject, working in favor of the broader protection of people at all times…

Slavery shall be forbidden in Mexico. Every individual who is considered as a slave at a foreign country shall be freed and protected under the law by just entering the country.

Any form of discrimination, based on ethnic or national origin, gender, age, disabilities, social status, medical conditions, religion, opinions, sexual orientation, marital status, or any other form, which violates the human dignity or seeks to annul or diminish the rights and freedoms of the people, is prohibited…

Article 2

The Mexican Nation is unique and indivisible. The nation is multicultural, based originally on its indigenous peoples, described as descendants of those inhabiting the country before colonization and that preserve their own social, economic, cultural and political institutions, or some of them…


Indigenous people’s right to self-determination shall be subjected to the Constitution in order to guarantee national unity. States’ and Federal District’s constitutions and laws must recognize indigenous peoples and communities, taking into account the general principles established in the previous paragraphs, as well as ethnic-linguistic and land settlement criteria. A. This Constitution recognizes and protects the indigenous peoples’ right to self-determination and, consequently, the right to autonomy…"


https://www.constituteproject.org/constitution/Mexico_2015.pdf?lang=en


Michel

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Re: PREAMBLE to Our Constitution rewritten as Draft by Ron Besser 081817
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2017, 07:03:40 PM »
My dear MidiChlorian,

Your point of view and what you posted in your message really appealed to me because I am very interested in this aspect of the MM which is the part of Justice actions.


Quote
As indicated, there has already been action on Urantia, that would show or indicate, the forerunning of "Judicial Actions" which would have set things in motion for a change in dispensation.  Those who are being judged are being put into situations that will allow them to use their free-will, in order to actually perform that which they are being judged as having done, not what they may or will do.  One cannot be convicted of something that they may do but, what they have done.  Therefore, the events to come, have been orchestrated in such a way as to allow the wrongdoers to act in order to create evidence, of their wrongdoing, for judicial judgment.


So, wrongdoers beware.

What you wrote seemed very correct to me but I still asked SERARA to give me more information to help me better understand this part of your message and to share it with all I give you the answer that SERARA gave me:


SERARA:
"The "Window for Choosing" remains open and those who have chosen to DO EVIL rather than DO GOOD are being presented with opportunities to reverse themselves by choosing the LIGHT.
Their choice must be individual, genuine and it must come from the heart.

The Trinity of Supremacy acting within God the Supreme offers lavish mercy to the children of rebellion on Urantia. Those who refuse to comply with Trinitarian will are soon to face a heartless remedy that includes everything up to and including personality extinction on the spot."
END

Michel
« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 07:17:12 PM by Michel »
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amethyst

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Re: PREAMBLE to Our Constitution rewritten as Draft by Ron Besser 081817
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2017, 01:23:00 PM »
Michael and Ron,  Thank you both for you words; they are quite helpful.  Yes I did see your comments, although a bit delayed.  It has been a rough week and I have not been signed in for a few days.
Blessings, Amethyst
Blessings,
Amethyst
Ambynetty

kindred shall forever remain unbroken