Author Topic: GENERAL DISCUSSION  (Read 823 times)

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occerpa

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GENERAL DISCUSSION
« on: October 17, 2017, 08:51:30 AM »
My loving greeting to everyone. I can say that in this forum there is no bad bit, particularly when it comes to celestial transmissions.

Of course, I yearn to become a "Transceiver," (so I like to compare it with those famous citizen band radios of the 80's), something that I think at some point we've all done but unconsciously with our thought adjuster , but that will be very different when we can do it willingly and consciously; I have the following question that I would like to get a response from as high as possible:

Does it make any difference to the achievement of the connection, being a vegetarian? I hope my inquiry is clear. It's because I've been a vegetarian for a long time and I'm not going to eat meat again. My question because never before or now with much more enthusiasm, following the recommendations given, I get nothing that resembles a T/R. I apologize if before, this topic may have been addressed, but the material is really threatening. Octavio
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 09:06:28 AM by Ron Besser »

Ron Besser

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Re: GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2017, 09:32:43 AM »
Dear Occerpa/Octavio,

Spirit and the material bodies are two distinct and separate collections of things and instances for themselves only.  That is the reason you are not spirit today.  It is not possible to turn a material object like your body into a spirit life or a spirit form over night, and I know you know this of yourself and all who you meet while incarnated here on earth.  What you do for the body by eating at all is to fuel it so that it might maintain its existences on earth to learn for the soul you create with your Thought Adjuster has enough experience and substance to leave the body when it passes and becomes a ward of the spirit where you do eventually get a spirit form to live in as yourself.  What you feed your body on earth has nothing to do with the future spirit form and as a result, and so long as what you eat is nutritious, how and what you feed the body makes no difference to God or His Sons.

However< let me say this.  Vegetarians often make the mistake not to eat protein from animal flesh.  On Urantia we are not advanced enough as a species to avoid certain vitamins on the flesh can provide such as Vitamin B1 and Vitamins B3, B5, and B12,  It is vital you take these vitamins then as a supplement from a store that sells these supplements.  What will happen to those who do not get these essential B vitamins is you actually will provide the body the means to decay inside of itself and get things like Multiple Sclerosis and a liver ailment known as Sclerosis of the Liver which in not unlike cancer and is often misdiagnosed as cancer.  These are the common side effects vegetarians can obtain when they eat nothing with these essential B Vitamins.  [I am listening to Michael and Mother dictate what goes wrong not using the B vitamins in the diet].

MICHAEL OF NEBADON -
"Vegetarians cannot make up for the lack of the family of vitamins you call B vitamins on Urantia.  Vegetarians think that Adam and Eve never ate of the flesh, but they did and often ate roasts of wild boar and wild goats, as they were plentiful in those days about forth five thousand years ago.  The secondary and the primary Midwayers of 37,000 years ago were precreated by the children of Adam and Eve and not from Adam and Eve directly.  As a result there is a gap of about 10,000 years from the arrival of Adam and Eve in your dating of their arrival.  They ate of the flesh for they knew without substantial induction of what you call the B vitamins, they would become sickly and their children were instructed to eat roasts and they even learned to fry certain meats such as fish and a saucy little animal called a dog-- wild dogs mind you and not entirely unlike your domesticated dog of today,  Be assured the time is coming on Urantia you can obtain the B vitamins wheny you need them from certain fruits and vegetables we will bring with us later on in the Magisterial Mission so we can avoid the wholesale slaughter of your domesticated animals such as cows and sheep.  But until then man has to either eat the flesh or perish from the lack thereof.  Supplements in vitamin pills are poor but they at least supply something of the vitamin B drug you all need very much to survive.  Thank you.  Michael."

Ron - I conclude then Occerpa that you prefer being a vegetarian.  Many vegetarians find the idea of eating pets or should I say, eating meat, to be reprehensible.  If I think about it I know what I eat like chicken and steaks are from animals that are sacrificed for me to enjoy a bit of meat.  However, I also know without them I get morose and sad so easily I see life through a glass darkly.  Emotional content of life is so important and that is what suffers mostly when not having B vitamins in the diet.  It is entirely up to each individual how they keep the body, but also remember you shorten your lives by refusing the source of B vitamins once in a while.  Fish is great but the flesh thereof is poor in Vitamin B1 and B5.  You need pork or beef once in a great while to get B3 and B5 and B12, and if you cook it too hard, even those B vitamins in Beef are cooked out and you do not get them.  That is why some people love their beef rare as it maintains those essential vitamins.  I leave the rest to your imagination and heart to heart talk with your soul as to what is truly needed for your own diet or for whomever you are asking this for, and then bravely take what you need to live healthfully. 
Ron



Located in Historic York, Pennsylvania

occerpa

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Re: GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2017, 11:40:05 AM »
Immensely grateful to Don and his speedy, complete and thoughtful answer to my question. I did not expect to receive those words from our own sovereign Christ Michael. I have not gone wrong with the diet for so many years and as I said, I do not think it is possible for me to change at this point in life, although part of the response I knew, so I use with sufficient judgment vitamin B supplements especially the B12.
I explain to my close relatives and patients that becoming a vegetarian should be part of an evolutionary process and never forced. Actually in my case I did not have problem to leave the meat and other animal products but I understand that for some that means a tremendous effort.
However, in relation to that magnificent insight of Ron and the forceful complement of Christ Michael, I want to add that some of the parts of the UB where I stopped to record it very well, is that document about the Spirit and the Flesh where makes mention that the lack of Andán brought as a consequence that our natures are not more easy to spiritual guidance by the fact of having mixed before time. I also understand that Jesus fought the sacrifice of Cordenos very much; in fact he did not object to his followers feeding on fish. In my personal experience with a practice of almost 50 years in the profession, I can corroborate of the harmful of seafood and others shellfish for intolerance mainly. And I can understand that everything is based on the genetic load in the first place and as our beloved sovereign tells us, the time has not come for you to get the B vitamins of vegetable origin. To finish, I think that I would like to get more muscle mass without having to eat meat (..); I am a vegetarian mainly by ethical and I think depending on the race, for some the meat makes them definitely violent.
My thanks for Ron's dedication to the forum.

[font="Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,"Lucida Grande",sans-serif]Octavio[/font]
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 03:00:15 PM by Ron Besser »

Don Crownover

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Re: GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2017, 12:20:59 AM »
Along with Octavio's post as occerpa, I want to also thank you Ron for posting this reply of important information and transmission from Michael of Nebadon. I take vitamins every day and did not realize how important the B Vitamins were for a person only desiring a mostly vegetarian diet. ... DonKC

Clency

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Re: GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2017, 01:18:20 AM »
Being partly of Indian culture, without of a vegan upbringing, I must say that my diet, as far as my younger years, is very close to a vegetarian, though I do, from time to time, allow myself some meat and fish. While seniors are encouraged, each winter time, in this country where I live, to have vaccines against influenza, I never do it, getting through easily and I will soon turn 70. Domtia
Oh, Lord ! I am your servant, I am your liege, it is my will to have your will be done, I am yours for eternity.

JuliodaLuz

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Re: GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2017, 06:04:05 AM »
Hi Octavio (Occerpa).

I also avoid eating warm-blooded animal meats. But I still eat fish and seafood, that is, cold-blooded animals. I also eat animal foods such as eggs (I actually eat egg whites, usually in my oatmeal burger), cheeses, yogurts. There are 04 (four) years I started this diet that I call semi-vegetarian diet, because in fact it is not totally vegetarian.

Since I started this diet, I have never again presented bad "cholesterol" in excess in the blood tests.

Recently, three months ago, a routine blood test showed up with excess blood sugar, presenting me as having "Diabetes Mellitus". Worse, for the first time sugar was detected in the urine. The doctor said that the sugar in the urine made the kidneys overload. Then I made a very strong food change, physical exercises and drink daily herbal teas (blackberry leaves and the medicinal plant called in Brazil "pata de vaca", because of the appearance of its leaves with a leg of cow).

On the other hand, I started taking a natural food supplement (VITAL 4K), rich in polyphenols (mainly anthocyanins) (anthocyaninias are present in plant foods that have purple coloring). In this supplement is added, also, other nutrients like Vitamins of the complex B. The formula was developed by Dr. Rafael Freitas, founder of Doctor Nature (an independent agency of natural medicine).

Vital4K website: http://www.vital4k.com/

Then (after three months with food changes, physical exercise and drinking herbal teas) blood glucose (blood sugar) has dropped to 100 (one hundred), with the normal glucose rate being up to 99 (ninety nine). Similarly, the test did not show any more sugar in the urine.


Last week I did a new periodic examination of blood, now in my work, and the blood glucose showed an index of 84 (eighty-four), that is, within normality.

Finally, this week I watched a program on the "National Geographic" channel that talked about a "natural" liquid fertilizer made by researcher in Chile, Alejandro Munoz (biochemist), but I do not remember the name of the product . It seems to me that the name of the television program had as its subject "a better world".

I located the fertilizer name now on the internet. It's called "Nutrisate."

The organic and ecological plants that were using the fertilizer "Nutrisato" (natural liquid fertilizer) developed much better than plants without Nutrisato.
Hi, Kurt. This is a message (about "natural" nutrisate fertilizer) is also for everyone who likes organic and organic food. I know you produce organic food in USA.



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Oi Octavio (Occerpa). 

Eu também evito de comer carnes de animais com sangue quente. Mas continuo a comer peixes e frutos do mar, ou seja, animais de sangue frio. Eu também como alimentos de origem animal, como ovos (na verdade eu como as claras dos ovos, normalmente em meu hamburguer de aveia), queijos, iogurtes. Há 04 (quatro) anos comecei esta dieta que eu chamo dieta semi-vegetariana, pois na verdade não é totalmente vegetariana.

Desde que comecei esta dieta, nunca mais apresentei o "colesterol" ruim em excesso nos exames de sangue.

Recentemente, há três meses atrás, um exame de sangue de rotina, apresentou com excesso de açúcar no sangue, me apresentando como portador de "Diabetes Mellitus". O pior, pela primeira vez foi detectado açúcar na urina. O médico falou que o açúcar na urina fazia com que se sobrecarregasse os rins. Em seguida, fiz uma mudança alimentar muito forte, exercícios físicos e beber diariamente chás de plantas medicinais (folhas de amora e a planta medicinal chamada no Brasil de "pata-de-vaca", por causa da aparência de suas folhas com uma pata de vaca).

Por outro lado, comecei a tomar um suplemento alimentar natural (VITAL 4K), rico em polifenóis (principalmente antocianinas) (antocianinias estão presentes em alimentos vegetais que tem coloração roxa). Neste suplemento é acrescido, também, outros nutrientes como Vitaminas do complexo B. A formula foi desenvolvida pelo Dr. Rafael Freitas, fundador do Doutor Nature (uma agência independente de medicina natural).

Site do Vital4K:  http://www.vital4k.com/

Em seguida (depois de três meses com mudança alimentar, exercícios físicos e beber chás de plantas medicinais) a glicose no sangue (açúcar no sangue) baixou para 100 (cem), sendo que o normal da taxa de glicose é até 99 (noventa e nove). Da mesma forma, no exame realizado não apareceu mais açúcar na urina.


A semana passada fiz um novo exame períodico de sangue, agora no meu trabalho, e a glicose no sangue apresentou índice de 84 (oitenta e quatro), ou seja, dentro da normalidade.

Por fim, esta semana eu assisti a um programa no canal "National Geographic" que falava sobre um adubo "natural" líquido (fertilizante líquido) feito por pesquisador no Chile, Alejandro Munoz (bioquímico), só que não me lembro o nome do produto. Me parece que no nome do programa da televisão tinha como assunto "um mundo melhor".

Localizei o nome do adubo agora na internet. Se chama "Nutrisato".

As plantas orgânicas e ecológicas que estavam usando o adubo "Nutrisato" (fertilizante líquido natural) se desenvolviam muito melhor do que as plantas sem o Nutrisato.


Oi Kurt. Esta é uma mensagem (sobre o adubo "natural" Nutrisato) é também para todos que gostam de alimentos orgânicos e ecológicos. Eu sei que você produz alimentos orgânicos nos EUA.
Julio da Luz (Bar'MTinsha - Pre'Msha)

occerpa

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Re: GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2017, 08:31:56 AM »
Dear JuliodaLuz,
I appreciate your attention with so much detail and so valuable information. I congratulate you for your success and I hope that your blood glucose keeps it well controlled, because I consider diabetes a disease that if neglected does ravage but instead if kept at bay is as if not even suffered. Thank you for that information about the products that I will take into account. The big difference in my case is that I live on an island of only 17 thousand inhabitants and there are not many options to vary, mainly in terms of food. In fact for non-vegetarians there are no problems anywhere.


Because this was the point of my question, which got a revolutionary response from Don to whom I want to thank again his attention, as well as the beloved sovereign Christ Michael who gave us data on this respect to keep very well recorded by the valuable. The Caribbeans, (I am from the Colombian Atlantic coast), I think, have the most diversified mix of races (Indian, black, white, yellow, hindu, and everything there is), so I think in general, a complex genetic combination. This is only speculation on my part, but without a doubt the genetic factor is so decisive in everything.


Okey my friend, again thank you for your kind attention and I hope you do not stop me from sharing your personal experiences in this field of health that interests me so much. For example here (as it is worldwide) in these islands the incidence of diabetes is high, and today there is no doubt the food is the root cause. However, there is a marked difference between the local people (Bonaire, Curacao)) with an afro-descendant predominance where diabetes is not only more prevalent but more difficult to treat, with respect to the Dutch emigrant target, which undoubtedly has to do with the genetic aspect, since the nutritional habits that predominate in the island have been implemented by Dutch colonization already for centuries.


« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 11:11:51 AM by Ron Besser »

Kurt

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Re: GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2017, 09:07:37 AM »
Hi Julio! Yes I try to grow as much of our vegetables as we can using only organic seafood compost mixed with cow manure from an organic dairy. Organic means not using synthetic fertilizers or pesticides which can cause cancer. My harvest this year was half of last years due to drought so we will have to buy more from local organic farmers. Our meat is also locally raised organically. All this has resulted in my being the only family member without a cancer of some kind. I believe our industrial food system is corrupt and poisonous to create an unhealthy populace dependent on a corrupt healthcare system. Best rule is to live like your grandparents did to avoid industrial diseases.
Welcome to all the new forumites.
My best to you and yours.
Domtia
Kurt

JuliodaLuz

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Re: GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2017, 05:43:42 AM »
Hi Octávio (Occerpa). For me is it good to know that you live in South America (or Central America?), On a Caribbean island near the coast of Colombia. We are close and we share, in some way, similar culture. I also have genetic offspring with various breeds influences. Despite being very white (Portuguese descendants - surname Luz - "Da Luz" - and German - surname Steinmetz). Possibly, I have Jewish-German descent, as there are many "Steinmetz" in ISRAEL, including a Center for Peace Studies in Tel Aviv, Israel. I also have genetic offspring of the black race in the maternal family. And it seems to me that I also have Spanish and indigenous descendants, also in the maternal family. I agree with you in the sense that I believe that many cancer-related illnesses stem from the poor diet of modern civilization.

Hi, Kurt. Yes, I believe that NUTRISATO (natural liquid fertilizer with high nitrogen level) developed by the biochemist Alejandro Munoz of Chile has live microorganisms, and thus feeds the plants and also the soil, making it the most fertile. I hope that in the United States and here in Brazil this technology is developed. Who knows, NUTRISATO develops subsidiary companies in your country and in my country to develop this technology to produce healthier foods.

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Oi Octávio (Occerpa). Para mim é muito bom saber que você mora na América do Sul (ou América Central?), em ilha caribenha perto da costa da Colombia. Estamos próximos e compartilhamos, de alguma forma, cultura semelhantes. Eu também tenho descendência genética com várias influências de raças. Apesar de ser muito branco (descendência portuguesa - sobrenome da Luz  - "Da Luz" -e alemã - sobrenome Steinmetz). Possivelmente, tenho descendência judaica-alemã, pois existem muitos "Steinmetz" em ISRAEL, inclusive um Centro de Estudos para a Paz em Tel Aviv, Israel. Também tenho descendência genética da raça negra, na família materna. E me parece que também tenho descendência espanhola e índigena, também na família materna. Eu concordo com você, no sentido de que eu acredito que muitas doenças relacionadas ao câncer decorrem da má-alimentação da civilização moderna.

Oi Kurt. Sim, eu acredito que o NUTRISATO (fertilizante líquido natural com alto nível de nitrogênio) desenvolvido pelo bioquimico Alejandro Munoz do Chile tem microorganismos vivos, e, assim alimenta as plantas e também o solo, tornando o mais fértil. Eu espero que aí nos Estados Unidos e aqui no Brasil se desenvolva esta tecnologia. Quem sabe a NUTRISATO desenvolva empresas-filiais em seu país e em meu país para desenvolvimento desta tecnologia para produção de alimentos mais saudáveis.

Julio da Luz (Bar'MTinsha - Pre'Msha)

Andre_P

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Re: GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2017, 07:17:21 AM »
Results of a short online search on vitamin B12 :

Vitamin B12 is very important. It is thought to be a coenzyme, ie it is needed for the action of various enzymes. Hence many negative effects of its lack in the human body. (See http://www.sante-et-nutrition.com/vitamine-b12/ - I quote French texts.)

Many B vitamins dissolve well in fats, but in plants (And also in vegetable oils) there is hardly any, and in butter there is very little of it, hence the problem for vegans, but not for vegetarians. (See below.) Our cosmic fathers promise that once they open up on Earth, they will once bring down the plants that produce this vitamin. (See http://forum.serara.org/index.php?topic=8916.msg61340#msg61340 )

It is believed that this vitamin is produced only by bacteria, especially those that can be found in the soil, hence much of it in the herbivore. Thanks to this, people can supply in this vitamin (to some extent) by eating poorly washed, cut rooted roots (carrot or radish), but also fruits. This also applies to fermented plants like not cooked sauerkraut or pickled cucumbers. The widespread use of biocides (weed-, fungi-, insecti-, bactericides) reduces these possibilities.

100 grams of bovine or calf liver contains 20 times the daily dose of this vitamin (see http://www.vitamine-b12.net/aliments/), but it disappears as a result of heating and it is difficult to find out how much of it is after various operations in the kitchen.

100 grams of camembrt cheese or two eggs contain the recommended daily dose of vitamin B12, other cheese less. It is known, however, that European legislation prefers pasteurized milk cheeses, but they allow the production and sale of raw milk cheeses under certain conditions, but it is difficult to find information about the possible difference in vitamin B12 content from milk pasteurization or cooking, frying or baking eggs. The type of B12 vitamin contained in cheese (methylcobalamine)is considered to be the best assimilated.

High physical or intellectual activity increases the need for vitamin B12.

occerpa

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Re: GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2017, 08:53:57 AM »

Thank you very much Andre_P, for that valuable information about vit B12, as important in my case, as a vegetarian that I am. I think in a very speculative way, that more study is required on the minimum and maximum doses for Vit B12, because may be as same as in the case of Vit C, its significant effects are found at high doses, so I believe that the minimum doses of 2.4 micrograms is very reduced especially for the older adult as we are called. Again, thank you very much for this information, which I think will be equally valuable to other members. I  annex that report about the Vit B12 of the Linus Pauling Institute
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/vitamins/vitamin-B12