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Messages - overmind

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General Discussion / Re: BOMBSHELL! Big GREAT News!
« on: June 06, 2018, 12:39:17 AM »
I'm open to spirits having a host of different names. I just haven't seen this one before, so I'm curious what the origin is.

General Discussion / Re: BOMBSHELL! Big GREAT News!
« on: June 06, 2018, 12:25:11 AM »
It looks interesting. Any idea why Nebadonia is being called Christa Maya? I'm not familiar with that term.

May I ask two questions here as this "teleportation" discussion proceeds:

1. Is there a need to make a distinction between material science and Spirit reality?

2. Or can material science, when pre-matter becomes a known fact, be married with Spirit reality?

Science is the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical world through observation and experiment. Human science is material by default, and exists as a process. Meanwhile, spirit reality is a thing or a set of things that we can hardly interact with or know about without direct revelation. The primary example of spirit reality in human life is our relationship with God, and the UB is quite clear that this has little to do with the realm of science. The two things you speak of are opposites in multiple ways, like comparing apples and gymnastics. Even when looking on the side of spirit, you're still comparing a process with a set of facts/meanings. You can use Rayson as an example and say he indulges in material science whilst being a part of that spirit reality, but to him it is just science, and he studies the differing elements of universe reality -- a system that merges the functions of matter, energy, morontia, and spirit. But maybe I'm just not interpreting your question correctly.

I would say what you describe is closer to a kind of projection, like astral travel but with a different kind of body used to ferry around the person's consciousness. I think the movement of consciousness and things are just separate categories entirely.

I actually had a novel idea about another possible form of travel the other day. It was where you invite a copy of the universe into you. Instead of traveling yourself, you would be moving the outside world through you. You scroll through it like a web browser. Your avatar is just a holographic model of how you wish to interact with the version of the universe you are pushing past your mind. The energy body never leaves the physical body. It's like the Adjuster taps into a universal database and throws you in a snapshot of everything in a given moment.

Ron, I trust the first section of your comment was just about the Melchizedek technique? The thing is, if you want to discuss teleportation, space/location always has to be a factor. Teleportation literally means to be physically transported across space instantly. If you're going to say space is not involved with the Melchizedek technique, then you are basically saying the given subjects aren't moved during the process, meaning it doesn't count as teleportation. I would agree with that. Meanwhile, transporting your consciousness to a new place does not count as teleportation either because you aren't moving matter in the process. Even if you want to argue that a body of matter can be recreated elsewhere and consciousness can be forced into it along with the recreation of mind, that doesn't explain what happens to the soul that is left in the original location. I sense spirit is wise enough to avoid deconstructing the morontial souls we've worked hard building up. If this wasn't the case, it seems it would be far more efficient to just recreate every human that died instead of ferrying them to Mansonia One. But then if you can just build souls like that, including their contents (experiences with survival value), it would seem mortal life is not that valuable. In sci-fi, teleportation basically kills the target and recreates their newly-living vessel, with the philosophical question of whether the transported individual is still the same person. The missing elements are the personality, the soul, and the Adjuster. Teleportation in the physical sense (the definition I have always been using) leaves out those elements in the process (at least when considering how it has been imagined previously). The distinctions between our definitions are important. I also do not include the idea of wormholes as examples because that counts as moving through distorted space, not appearing at a brand new point without movement or the transfer of energy.

I never considered the Melchizedek technique to be teleportation because the humans (or targets) still have to be moved via seraphic transport. It's there in your quote. The book seems to indicate that while the bodies are altered at the molecular state, they are not actually moved in space during that process. Immediately changing the location of the new body seems problematic for the soul that would get left behind.

When it comes to time travel, I am not dismissing the idea that midwayers and spirit beings can somehow reach back a few hours in their environment, but that is far different from going back to see Lincoln in the flesh, and what they are able to alter in the world is likely limited in scope. Also, for those in astral travel, time seems a little more malleable. The future and past blur together a little with the present, which is why I see it as a moving band of activity instead of a single point. It probably doesn't help that our senses alter our sense of what the present actually is. There was an interesting study a few years back (which I can only paraphrase at best). Doctors stimulated a section of the brain that was associated with the arms. After a brief pause, the person felt as if their arm was poked or manipulated in some way. The feeling should have been immediate, but it was not. Meanwhile, directly stimulating the arm created an immediate reaction even though the signal had to travel up to the brain. The conclusion was that the brain was somehow receiving the nerve signal and then sending its reaction to it back in time to make the process feel instantaneous. I think it has something to do with how the mind operates through Mother Spirit, but it was interesting nonetheless.

Kind of strange for there to be years of talk about joint magisterial missions between here and Panoptia if their planet was destroyed before the rebelling Planetary Princes were rounded up years ago. That planet has been mentioned multiple times as populated, both here and elsewhere. I'm also wondering how it's super easy to blow up stars for beings just tasked with directing the evolution of mankind. Apparently, it can be done from a jail cell with just a snap of the fingers.

My understanding is that time travel is better described as time viewing in that no is travelling around like you're describing, instead, they are observing without participating.

Teleportation in the form of transport could be more like creating portals in space-time rather than travelling though it.  Conceptually, like what the video appeared to do, just saying.

Observing the past as a form of record is possible. Stepping into that past is not. Just being present in the environment means interacting with that environment. If his claim were true that his picture was taken in the past as a little boy, then he would have altered the future.

The concept of utilizing space folds to jump ahead through space has been explained here, but that's not teleportation. That is finding an alteration in how space is distributed and utilizing that to travel a greater distance in less time. Even then, it's not visible to the naked eye, and for all we know is just a concept here on this forum. The reality of it has yet to be discovered. The same is true with the more widely discussed idea of wormholes.

@Ron: I'm glad I took the time to read through the Rayson science site some time ago so I could follow this somewhat.

@overmind: I wish we could sit down over a meal so I can disagree with your authoritative reply in a personally friendly setting instead of saying anything on a message board, when you mention A.B.

(1295.1) 118:1.1 It is helpful to man’s cosmic orientation to attain all possible comprehension of Deity’s relation to the cosmos. While absolute Deity is eternal in nature, the Gods are related to time as an experience in eternity. In the evolutionary universes eternity is temporal everlastingness — the everlasting now.

The past does not exist simultaneously with the present or future in the material universe. You can't visit that which is no longer actualized in the universe, plain and simple. You cannot go back in time, kill Hitler as a child (or anyone else), and then alter the state of the entire universe as a result. Everything would be chaos and nothing would have meaning. Immortality would not exist even after Adjuster fusion if anyone can go back and stop you from being born. Meanwhile, the cosmology the UB sets up does not allow for alternate timelines. All that exists are different projections of a possible future as well as the definite future (possibly pre-existing within infinity) that the I AM occasionally attempts to not look at. Human decisions are meaningless without consequences, and there are no consequences when decisions can be undone. Also, why does spirit not participate in this to the degree humans could if it was so easy? Why couldn't Caligastia or Lucifer escape Gabriel by leaping backwards and forwards in time? Why couldn't Michael go back and choose not to create those beings in the first place? Why has God mandated that free will be sacrosanct if the free will choices of his creatures can be removed from spirit record by the said creatures messing with time? How do you get around the fact that time travel in general has glaring paradoxes that even fiction has trouble reconciling?

Do you not see the ultimate issue at play, here? God created and controls reality. He would not allow time travel to be possible in the way that it is described. Why? It allows anyone to directly alter both God's decisions as well as his relationship with his children. It would grant any mortal or spirit being alike the ability to hamper the progress of the universe indefinitely, ignoring the fact that such a destiny would no longer hold weight in the first place because consciousness, will, experience, truth, beauty, goodness -- all things that make the growth of the soul and the Supreme possible cannot be guaranteed to last. There would not even be a true present reality. All possibilities would exist simultaneously in an ever-changing stupor of meaningless struggle. To God, it'd likely be no different than the Infinitude.

Also, how do you deem teleportation of a human possible if no one, morontial or spiritual, can do that to get around? Even the transport seraphim, who's sole goal is to transport beings around the universe, have to utilize the streams of energy in the universe to move about the environment (and while they're really fast, it's not instantaneous). The only place where the rules of space travel do not apply is Paradise, and it's not entirely clear to us what movement there will look like without a personal visit.

@overmind.  Maybe it's a visual of what Project Pegasus is supposed to be about.

Andrew Basiago's claims about time travel and teleportation don't work with the UB cosmology, nor do they really make sense on their own.

General Discussion / Re: change in energy?
« on: May 22, 2018, 04:57:04 PM »
One thing to keep in mind is that the Salvington government can redefine or rename a system without it being altered on the physical level. It would be akin to altering a state's boundaries here in the US and changing the officials who run it. Michael has mentioned the possible renaming of Satania for years (though I thought it was silly), and we've also heard talk about the creation of a new system for a while as well. Also, if the movement of the planet or the entire solar system is ever going to happen, it's not going to occur before the Magisterial Mission starts. Five or six years ago, there was talk of adding an entirely new planet to the solar system that would house the schools that studied both Urantia the Lucifer Rebellion, but it was never going to take place before the Melchizedeks were on the ground, and human governments had been altered to some degree to handle whatever other changes were in store. Of course, I can't validate whether all or some of that is true, but the concepts introduced a few days ago aren't new in any case. Michael (especially when working with the Father) has the power to make these kinds of changes within his local universe, so that's not really the question here. It's whether or not the news we're being fed is correct.

Hard to say whether it is credible or not. I'm certainly curious what the portal is actually for if it's real. Doesn't seem to match the technology of the ships described previously.

General Discussion / Re: From physical to morontial
« on: May 04, 2018, 02:43:45 PM »
I can't speak to the truth of the present situation, but it seems plausible in theory given how much time was devoted to this. We just don't know how morontia materials generally interact with physical bodies, so it's hard to say what the process would look like. From what I've read, it seems they've been slowly introducing a morontial version of the body within the physical one during that transition, but this would be different from the normal resurrection where the soul and personality are moved to a completely new body that is created after death (the UB calls it creature reassembly). I would say the resurrection of Jesus was also a unique process in Nebadon, but is likely similar among all Creator Sons.

FUSION TALK / Re: Fusion and Current Policy To Continue With Or Not
« on: April 16, 2018, 09:27:54 PM »
@Dorian dear soul, My 5 cents worth of advice; Urantia is a troubled place and you will have to listen to your Adjuster's council as many gunslingers frequent this forum only to bring discord. I hope to be wrong, but it appears MinatoYoshida10 fits this bill too. I leave it there for now. Wendy

Considering he posted the exact same list of questions a bunch of times elsewhere in the forum, creating eight or more useless threads, it was pretty obvious. Ron is probably better off closing the door to all newcomers at this point.

General Discussion / Re: Travel Notice
« on: April 16, 2018, 12:00:40 AM »
Have a good time, Larry.

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