Author Topic: Nuclear History Partially Known on Urantia - Scenario Forecast  (Read 1745 times)

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waforbes100

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Re: Nuclear History Partially Known on Urantia - Scenario Forecast
« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2017, 10:03:45 PM »
Dear Brother Dorian,

Question 1: I agree that skills/talents can be added or lost - they can change. Therefore, since personality is changeless (as per TUB), can we equate personality to talents?

Question 2: I also agree that free will is sacrosanct; however, free will is not absolute. If free will were absolute, then how do we explain the fates of Lucifer and Caligastia? (Sure they would want to live forever doing damage to Michael's creation...yes?)

I am very grateful for your thoughts and enjoy refining my views by the corrections of others! Please continue, dear brother Dorian!

All Love & Gratitude,
Walt

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Re: Nuclear History Partially Known on Urantia - Scenario Forecast
« Reply #31 on: April 17, 2017, 10:08:07 PM »
I have been reading, rereading and thinking about Ron's original post of this thread and had wanted to ask a few questions about it since Ron's  original post and the revelations from Michael are very very important for our understanding.  This thread is one of those revelations that we are so fortunate to have been given, yet they seem to have been tarnished a bit through the course of discussion.  However the direction,  byways,  and alleyways that this has now taken isn't from the perspective that I have been thinking about  and wanted to ask about.   If this  settles down soon I will try and get my questions together more precisely than I now have them so I can pose  my questions at a more opportune time since I am not really wanting to contribute to a debate and/or clash.  I can perhaps just send my comments and questions to Ron privately and hope my questions aren't too basic and simple for him to bother with.  I am a bit disappointed since I have been thinking about all this for a couple of days now....another lesson  presented to  learn.   LarryG

Oh dear brother Larry! I embrace your loving concern and warm, gentle note of caution. You have touched me, most beautiful sir. The light of Michael shines through you, beloved brother. Hugs and thanks.

All Love & Gratitude,
Walt

MidiChlorian

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Re: Nuclear History Partially Known on Urantia - Scenario Forecast
« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2017, 10:25:52 PM »
The text is implying that God bestowed others on the planet, naturally with the intention of them following God's will by doing their given job, and technically it is the Nebadon government or Michael that makes such individual decisions. It does not say the Father functions directly through the given beings. Neither people nor the celestials are beings that the Father can take control over remotely to fulfill a goal, like remote controlled toys. Your description invalidates the free will concept by allowing Deity to manipulate finite creatures -- to supersede them. Even as the Adjuster indwells a human, the human's decisions are not nullified. They are simply shown better options as they grow and act in the world. In fact, the Adjuster is pre-personal so that the human personality is capable of being free or existing at all. Even when I have been physically indwelled by the spirit of the Trinity, my free will did not disappear. After all, it is that will that makes the ascension journey meaningful. There is no point to our existence without it.

"overmind", I will not defend my position, because you and I are not on the same page regarding the thought process however, your mention of the adjuster being a "prepersonal" entity is important to the entire ascension process. Where I ask, why is it mentioned in the UB that our existence on Urantia effects others in the local universe and other planets?  There is a specific reason why which is buried in the UB text where I would suggest that you bone up on the term prepersonal as found in the UB.  I will present some pertinent text below which may give you an idea of where I'm going with this and my experience with reading your narrations may need additional queuing of information, which I may provide.

Quote
(1181.6) 107:5.3 The mindedness of the Thought Adjuster is like the mindedness of the Universal Father and the Eternal Son — that which is ancestral to the minds of the Conjoint Actor.

(1181.7) 107:5.4 The type of mind postulated in an Adjuster must be similar to the mind endowment of numerous other orders of prepersonal entities which presumably likewise originate in the First Source and Center. Though many of these orders have not been revealed on Urantia, they all disclose minded qualities. It is also possible for these individuations of original Deity to become unified with numerous evolving types of nonmortal beings and even with a limited number of nonevolutionary beings who have developed capacity for fusion with such Deity fragments.

(1182.1) 107:5.5 When a Thought Adjuster is fused with the evolving immortal morontia soul of the surviving human, the mind of the Adjuster can only be identified as persisting apart from the creature’s mind until the ascending mortal attains spirit levels of universe progression.

(1182.2) 107:5.6 Upon the attainment of the finaliter levels of ascendant experience, these spirits of the sixth stage appear to transmute some mind factor representing a union of certain phases of the mortal and Adjuster minds which had previously functioned as liaison between the divine and human phases of such ascending personalities. This experiential mind quality probably “supremacizes” and subsequently augments the experiential endowment of evolutionary Deity — the Supreme Being.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 10:27:42 PM by MidiChlorian »
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overmind

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Re: Nuclear History Partially Known on Urantia - Scenario Forecast
« Reply #33 on: April 17, 2017, 11:29:48 PM »
Quote
NONETHELESS (Assertion 1), there is adequate clarity to firmly state that the Lucifer's, Satan's, and Caligastia's source of personality is The Father...yes?
The Father operates the personality circuit, and all beings with personality are part of it. Yet the process in which Michael and Nebadonia create different beings is not entirely clear to me personally. The unknown intricacies of it mean the Father's role is not entirely clear, even though it is clear for humans. It is possible that this process is very similar in that the Father gifts personality the same way he does for humans, or Michael might be capable of doing this for the Father as a Paradise Son. I'm not really advocating for one way or the other, just stating that it is not clear to me. If you can find something that refreshes my knowledge of this creative process, I would be grateful.

Quote
THEREFORE (Assertion 2): these 2 things (characteristic restlessness & tendency to disagree...) were personality traits. If true, then he was created with them - as opposed to 'environment, education, or experience' creating them, as Overmind seems to suggest. Bear in mind that environment, education, and experience merely influence the manifestation of personality traits - NOT their origin. Personality is changeless, as MidiChlorian has reminded us, pointing to TUB 0:5.11.
These traits might actually be quirks of Caligastia's mind, which was also bestowed upon him. Or perhaps it really is just behavior he learned during his education. We cannot really assume it is either case since it is not clearly stated what the origin of these traits are. Keep in mind that the human term "personality trait" does not always work with the UB's definition of personality. We have to revise how we use the word when having this kind of discussion. It has more to do with individual perspective and the consciousness of that perspective than the character traits that have developed over a given life. Everything is just so integrated that it can be difficult to mentally separate the different aspects of our humanity.

Quote
The Light is, it cannot be experienced as what it is in the absence of its opposites... God breaks it down something like this, 'In the absence of  that Which Is Not, that Which Is - is not!' (In the absence of darkness, light does not exist). Ultimately, rebellions (and their consequences) all prove to be the grandest of gifts - and only temporariy curses.
You are not addressing me in this next segment, but let me state that the assertion of the individual is not correct. The spiritual values of God can be experienced without the presence of evil. The existence of Havona and its residents is proof of this. However, evil/error aides in the appreciation of spiritual values because you experience both their presence and absence. In fact, the UB states that evil does not need to exist in the material world at all, only the possibility of it. This is not the statement I refer to, but it follows along the same lines:

(1429.1) 130:1.5 Jesus’ last visit with Gadiah had to do with a discussion of good and evil. This young Philistine was much troubled by a feeling of injustice because of the presence of evil in the world alongside the good. He said: “How can God, if he is infinitely good, permit us to suffer the sorrows of evil; after all, who creates evil?” It was still believed by many in those days that God creates both good and evil, but Jesus never taught such error. In answering this question, Jesus said: “My brother, God is love; therefore he must be good, and his goodness is so great and real that it cannot contain the small and unreal things of evil. God is so positively good that there is absolutely no place in him for negative evil. Evil is the immature choosing and the unthinking misstep of those who are resistant to goodness, rejectful of beauty, and disloyal to truth. Evil is only the misadaptation of immaturity or the disruptive and distorting influence of ignorance. Evil is the inevitable darkness which follows upon the heels of the unwise rejection of light. Evil is that which is dark and untrue, and which, when consciously embraced and willfully endorsed, becomes sin.

(1429.2) 130:1.6 “Your Father in heaven, by endowing you with the power to choose between truth and error, created the potential negative of the positive way of light and life; but such errors of evil are really nonexistent until such a time as an intelligent creature wills their existence by mischoosing the way of life. And then are such evils later exalted into sin by the knowing and deliberate choice of such a willful and rebellious creature. This is why our Father in heaven permits the good and the evil to go along together until the end of life, just as nature allows the wheat and the tares to grow side by side until the harvest.” Gadiah was fully satisfied with Jesus’ answer to his question after their subsequent discussion had made clear to his mind the real meaning of these momentous statements.

If you can understand what is being said here, then it is a no-brainer that the Father is not a creator of darkness because such would require God to manipulate the decisions of people so that they become bad. You get it? God does not endorse error or sin. He endorses freedom through mercy, and if such freedom leads to a being fully identifying with the unreal, then they will be forced to become unreal themselves so that light can continue to prosper. Essentially, existence must have meaning, and this meaning is found within God. When such meaning becomes absent from someone or something in the universe, the subject eventually disappears in one way or another. This relates directly to the many discussions on justice we have had, so I'm not sure why this is an issue again. It should be obvious that God is never behind rebellion or supports it, but some here are incapable of understanding that the delay in divine justice and the extension of mercy do not mean sin is necessary.
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overmind

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Re: Nuclear History Partially Known on Urantia - Scenario Forecast
« Reply #34 on: April 17, 2017, 11:40:34 PM »
Quote
I was glad to see that Overmind pointed out the main thing that we have been given and have been promised that no one, not even God will override, our "Free Will."   It is as he said, "our free will is sacrosanct, regarded as too important or valuable to be interfered with."   No one in all the Universes has the right to make you do something which is against your "Free Will".   It has been stated that God is not a respecter of a person, however he may step in for instance to save someone who is about to perish, not because he feels that person is more important than another person, but that that person has a special "Function" that he/she is to perform or be apart of.   God only exist in man through his gift of our personal Adjuster.   It's function is to assist us in making the right moral decisions so that we may move inward instead of outward or away from Paradise.   Every single decision has its own reaction that is the direct result of our causing such a decision to take place within our thinking and action.
Free will cannot be overridden, but action can. Your potentials can be restricted, although you are free to desire the potentials that are unreachable. For instance, God will not take control of you to make you immobile, but he can order your arrest and you will be physically restrained by another being as a result. Just wanted to clarify, but you probably knew this already.
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waforbes100

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Re: Nuclear History Partially Known on Urantia - Scenario Forecast
« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2017, 12:46:57 AM »
@Overmind: first, let me say thank you very much for rebutting - it is so useful for me. I will address your responses one by one:

Quote
NONETHELESS (Assertion 1), there is adequate clarity to firmly state that the Lucifer's, Satan's, and Caligastia's source of personality is The Father...yes?
The Father operates the personality circuit, and all beings with personality are part of it. Yet the process in which Michael and Nebadonia create different beings is not entirely clear to me personally. The unknown intricacies of it mean the Father's role is not entirely clear, even though it is clear for humans. It is possible that this process is very similar in that the Father gifts personality the same way he does for humans, or Michael might be capable of doing this for the Father as a Paradise Son. I'm not really advocating for one way or the other, just stating that it is not clear to me. If you can find something that refreshes my knowledge of this creative process, I would be grateful.

My Response: Oops! I was hoping the quotes I provided in Reply #27 were adequate for my assertion (TUB 0:6.13, 6:5.3, 9:8.9 & 9:8.11 - see text in Reply #27) . If those quotes are not conclusive, I will have to dig further. I realize that you're asking for explicit TUB details on how the local Universe Gods handle or participate in personality bestowal during their creation of beings. Just remember that the design and creation of creatures does NOT encompass personality bestowal. As for evidence, I will have to spend some time in research - but for now, I'm eager to get to the other points.

Quote
Quote
THEREFORE (Assertion 2): these 2 things (characteristic restlessness & tendency to disagree...) were personality traits. If true, then he was created with them - as opposed to 'environment, education, or experience' creating them, as Overmind seems to suggest. Bear in mind that environment, education, and experience merely influence the manifestation of personality traits - NOT their origin. Personality is changeless, as MidiChlorian has reminded us, pointing to TUB 0:5.11.
These traits might actually be quirks of Caligastia's mind, which was also bestowed upon him. Or perhaps it really is just behavior he learned during his education. We cannot really assume it is either case since it is not clearly stated what the origin of these traits are. Keep in mind that the human term "personality trait" does not always work with the UB's definition of personality. We have to revise how we use the word when having this kind of discussion. It has more to do with individual perspective and the consciousness of that perspective than the character traits that have developed over a given life. Everything is just so integrated that it can be difficult to mentally separate the different aspects of our humanity.

My Response: the underlined portion of your statement in the quote above is, for me, your most convincing statement that causes me to consider that my premise is fundamentally flawed. You are asserting that the cause of their betrayal may not be due to personality factors. If you are right, then I agree that my whole position (on this point) is wrong. I wonder Who is able to definitively answer the question whether their default was caused by personality factors - "personality", as referred to in TUB. Mmmm. Good one, Overmind! :)


Quote
Quote
The Light is, it cannot be experienced as what it is in the absence of its opposites... God breaks it down something like this, 'In the absence of  that Which Is Not, that Which Is - is not!' (In the absence of darkness, light does not exist). Ultimately, rebellions (and their consequences) all prove to be the grandest of gifts - and only temporariy curses.
You are not addressing me in this next segment, but let me state that the assertion of the individual is not correct. The spiritual values of God can be experienced without the presence of evil. The existence of Havona and its residents is proof of this. However, evil/error aides in the appreciation of spiritual values because you experience both their presence and absence. In fact, the UB states that evil does not need to exist in the material world at all, only the possibility of it. This is not the statement I refer to, but it follows along the same lines:

(1429.1) 130:1.5 Jesus’ last visit with Gadiah had to do with a discussion of good and evil. This young Philistine was much troubled by a feeling of injustice because of the presence of evil in the world alongside the good. He said: “How can God, if he is infinitely good, permit us to suffer the sorrows of evil; after all, who creates evil?” It was still believed by many in those days that God creates both good and evil, but Jesus never taught such error. In answering this question, Jesus said: “My brother, God is love; therefore he must be good, and his goodness is so great and real that it cannot contain the small and unreal things of evil. God is so positively good that there is absolutely no place in him for negative evil. Evil is the immature choosing and the unthinking misstep of those who are resistant to goodness, rejectful of beauty, and disloyal to truth. Evil is only the misadaptation of immaturity or the disruptive and distorting influence of ignorance. Evil is the inevitable darkness which follows upon the heels of the unwise rejection of light. Evil is that which is dark and untrue, and which, when consciously embraced and willfully endorsed, becomes sin.

(1429.2) 130:1.6 “Your Father in heaven, by endowing you with the power to choose between truth and error, created the potential negative of the positive way of light and life; but such errors of evil are really nonexistent until such a time as an intelligent creature wills their existence by mischoosing the way of life. And then are such evils later exalted into sin by the knowing and deliberate choice of such a willful and rebellious creature. This is why our Father in heaven permits the good and the evil to go along together until the end of life, just as nature allows the wheat and the tares to grow side by side until the harvest.” Gadiah was fully satisfied with Jesus’ answer to his question after their subsequent discussion had made clear to his mind the real meaning of these momentous statements.

If you can understand what is being said here, then it is a no-brainer that the Father is not a creator of darkness because such would require God to manipulate the decisions of people so that they become bad. You get it? God does not endorse error or sin. He endorses freedom through mercy, and if such freedom leads to a being fully identifying with the unreal, then they will be forced to become unreal themselves so that light can continue to prosper. Essentially, existence must have meaning, and this meaning is found within God. When such meaning becomes absent from someone or something in the universe, the subject eventually disappears in one way or another. This relates directly to the many discussions on justice we have had, so I'm not sure why this is an issue again. It should be obvious that God is never behind rebellion or supports it, but some here are incapable of understanding that the delay in divine justice and the extension of mercy do not mean sin is necessary.


My Response: Ah, dear brother - in my view, your mild frustration is a holy and righteous one. I am in full agreement with the spirit of your truth. Now let me attempt to carefully clarify...
1. I grant you 50% right for your statement that "The spiritual values of God can be experienced without the presence of evil". This statement of itself I hold to be 100% correct - as evidenced by your examples; HOWEVER...

2. ...The point being made is subtly different - here is my clarifying revision of your statement I highlighted in point #1: "The spiritual values of God can NOT be experienced without the existence (i.e. the fact/actuality, awareness/knowledge, and/or potential/possibility) of the opposite of these values.

The next point (3) I make is independent of the above two points...it is [probably] controversial; but even if you disagree with point #3 below, please do not allow such a disagreement to be auto-grouped with its preceding point  (#2) and thus all cast into the "I disagree" bin ;D - i.e., please evaluate #3 independently of #2; here goes...

3. In 'TUB-forum-NewAge' terms, Neale's transmission could be paraphrased as follows: The Infinitude encompasses absolutely everything, and there is nothing that is not encompassed within The Infinitude (stating the obvious to score agreement points ;D ). HOWEVER, The Most Sublime Portion of The Infinitude (Which/Whom we call God) operates in a way that NEVER assists, aids, or abets the components of The Infinitude which are opposite to Its (His) Perfectly Sublime Nature.


Oh brother Overmind: if you are able to successfully rebut any of these numbered points, then I am going to learn so much! I cannot lose! Teach me, Overmind! ;D


All Love, Gratitude & Glee,
Walt
« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 12:54:07 AM by waforbes100 »

Dorian

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Re: Nuclear History Partially Known on Urantia - Scenario Forecast
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2017, 08:05:40 AM »
Walt, my using the metaphor of the talents was only to imply that we were all given a personality of equal value.  How we husband this gift is through our own free will decisions that we make.  Decisions that go to the credit (positive) entry of our book of life, or to the debit (negative) side.

I don't think as deeply as Overmind or Novaprime or MidiClorine, or even you Walt, but I do find these back and forth debates interesting.  I just find it stimulating to my mind and I believe that we need to be involved to a degree or we are just the audience and not the participants.  Right or wrong I want to participate right up to my dying breath.

Thank you for your reply Overmind, and yes, I do agree and understand.  I just go to the city by a different route but still get there.

Your friend always, 
Dorianii
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Ron Besser

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Re: Nuclear History Partially Known on Urantia - Scenario Forecast
« Reply #37 on: April 18, 2017, 11:04:01 AM »
Dear List,
Watching this thread causes me a lot of concern over one important issue we have not kept our discipline about us very well.

The thread is originally intended to state possible scenarios of why we or the Magisterial Mission has run into trouble once again.

Personality, and its discussion per se, has nothing to do with the scenarios and potential nuclear mayhem on Urantia.  

I spend a lot of time thinking, or what passes for it in me sometimes.  I declare that you MidiChlorian start things off well and wind up in a soup of misunderstanding and that is followed into the soup by the rest of you sometimes.

You are to understand there is nothing wrong to discuss personality even in relationship to the subject of this thread but is has so skewed the discussion I consider it dead,  

I have three options:
1) To lock it and let is stand as is;
2) Delete it and let's go on without its necessity;
3) To remove all posts that have to do with personality and questions relating back to the subject but not well stated at all, and place them into a new thread to call it what I am not sure.  Is this perhaps the preferred method perhaps?

I leave you with this thought:  I admit I have a real hard time following some of your statements and conclusions.  The trouble is, that tells me, we are not on the same page with definitions of terms you address.

I thought, first about three hours ago, that one of you who uses terms like the trinity of evil should provide your own little glossary of how you use a term.  I used to do that when I produced the ABC Summaries and the Flurry.  However I also see a petulance in some wording that belies the fact that there is no real inclusion of understanding  the terms you sometimes use.  But I advise you, especially MidiChlorian and sometime Overmind and waforbes100, you badly need to tell the reader how you use a term.  It need only state the meaning but set it off as a glossary before you state your reply.  I for one see many definitions of personality here and origins and purpose, that it so entirely skews what I think you mean to say as totally undependable to the meanings of personality as stated in the Urantia Book.

Before anyone gets upset at this, I fully support that you discuss the subject to your light, but no reader can follow you very well with how you sometimes state your meanings without telling us how some unusual terms are being used.  I still do not get 'trinity of evil,' as you actually use it.  When you start changing the rules of discussion, you somehow must make amends to the poor reader who cannot follow personal definitions or understandings that evade most human minds, including my own mind.

So: I am requesting
1) Move the discussion according to your style about personality to a new thread and take what you have to say to that new thread;

2) Stop posting concerning personality on this thread as it has so tattered the original meaning I no longer make sense or purpose of it.

It we persist in damaging the thread further, I just may take it all down and pray no damage was done,

Ron/Admin


« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 11:08:39 AM by Ron Besser »
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Don Crownover

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Re: Nuclear History Partially Known on Urantia - Scenario Forecast
« Reply #38 on: April 18, 2017, 11:57:55 AM »
Thank you Ron, for setting things straight on this wayword post, so to speak.

When I came across this long thread yesterday morning I quickly scanned through it looking at the many thoughts and pretensions and wanted to read some, and not having the time or interest in the new path I just made a quick note in my notebook of  "Much Ado About Noting."

Someday I may come back to it and read it, someday I may not.  I went to taking notes from Daniel's transmission of Califax

However it does seem to deserve a place of its own... these boys are really exercising their spiritual brains together and with peace to the status of any strong debate... kinda nice to see.

Love to everyone of you. Don
« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 12:05:26 PM by Don Crownover »
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LarryG

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Re: Nuclear History Partially Known on Urantia - Scenario Forecast
« Reply #39 on: April 18, 2017, 04:44:38 PM »
Ron, in your response on this thread to Weydevu, you were writing about the sequences of time  and how they were moved from  the present to the past by the Father.  You also mentioned this:

" Weydevu, in my conversations with Monjoronson, I reminded him that they said that nuclear war was no longer possible on Urantia.  He agreed but also said that nuclear war is in the minds of leaders who take it as their right to pursue, and therefore we allow them to act it out.  What the world knows little of is that Trump has already fired off one nuclear bomb and he is satisfied it changed the world enough for him to back down. (I find this to be vastly interesting to read!!!!)

"Ron here as I have spoken above:  The work of God the Ultimate is at hand on Urantia to change sequence of events from present to past, and past to present.  Mankind on Urantia calls this evaluation hallucination, but in actual fact it is more than hallucination to a mind of God the Supreme we all have here.  The mind of God is infinite in actuality but the finite and its sequences are contained within that reality unconditioned by actual sequence.  Actual sequences are blasted from infinity by Supremacy and only God the Father may alter sequence through God the Ultimate.  Infinity embraces Ultimacy, Supremacy, and Absoluteness, yet a mind we possess sees only present sequences and notices nothing at all about a sequence it does not know exists."

"If you wish to be precise, infinity embosses the Trump equation by lifting it out of 2017 and moves it to 1952.  You observe Trump from 2017 and see nothing while the Ultimate presses Trump actions into 1952 and not 2017"
.
What and why is it about 1952?... I looked up 1952 and found nothing historically about weapons and tests   except
:
UK tested their first nuclear bomb in 1952 and this:

1 November 1952
US tests the first hydrogen bomb
The US raises the stakes in the nuclear arms race by detonating the first hydrogen bomb at Enewetak Atoll in the Marshall Islands. It is 500 times more powerful than the Nagasaki bomb.
In regards to this time sequence adjustments, are we speaking about potentials within the mind of man or actuals in time and actuals.   I may really be missing the boat on this which is why I have really been thinking about theis entire thread and it's revelation to us and  its vital importance to our understanding and future. I realize that you may not be, for Reasons of State, permitted to go any further with this information than you already have.  But any light you may shed on this would be helpful and if not I understand.

These are such dangerously perilous times that confront us and even more so in that it ha suchs possible effects on  these Missions and the Sons in charge.....LarryG
« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 05:14:56 PM by LarryG »
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Ron Besser

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Re: Nuclear History Partially Known on Urantia - Scenario Forecast
« Reply #40 on: April 18, 2017, 06:55:22 PM »
The finite mind is never going to accept this explanation.

The absonite mind finds it plausible but uniquely irrelevant to life it leads too.

The absolute mind takes the idea of sequence and relegates it to the House that Jack built aas a metaphor and not as a finite experience. 

The finite experience has already extracted the events from 1952 to 2017 in many of our minds, and therefore carries very little interest in inventing a scenario where we flip what was true in 2017 as corrected sequencing without anything prior to 1952 being remembered other than what most of us lived as being there in 1952.

We are speaking to the finite mind theoretically as no correction if felt by we who were there and lived the 1952 experience although I vividly recall television news and the newsreel films of the hydrogen bomb explosion in the Pacific that year,  The finite person such as my self has no reflection on the changes instituted by the Father at that time yet I am still a product of the year 1942 and have no recollection of course change in 1952.

So what has changed?  The finite mind cannot grasp an absolute in any case; it can feel a twinge of regret over what it did or did not do in 1952, but I am never going to meet myself as one person designed in 1942 at birth and the new evolutionary person who appears corrected in evolution as of 1952.  Do not even try to imagine the correction as either conscious or finite but imagine it as a consequence rather than as a change or the Ultimate becoming sensitized to work we will never see ourselves on the mansion worlds or as outer space workers, brothers,  working there with the Ultimate and looking back at Urantia without perception of such a change to the planet UNLESS God the Ultimate changes our perspective from Supreme to Absonite.
Gaia, the Planetary Supreme - :I see Ron fight this one too Larry,  he knows his stuff but not his sense of time.  Time is elastic enough to bring the entire matter of bad evolution into the open, as you see it on Urantia everywhere.  But what you cannot see is the consequences in the time-future, and that is where the Ultimate has forced changing your direction as  though your heart and soul met a Y in the road and forced you right instead of evolutionary Left on Urantia.  You still see the sequence of the moment and you still see your life as it was in 1952 (at least Ron can), and never do the twain's meet as evolution discredited your life consequences as directed then to as directed now.
"I am Gaia and I prefer to be called that now or at least for the time being, because they are going to recommission me and reset my evolution from 1935 when the fifth epochal revelation was introduced to Dr. Sadler, to 2019 when the new Urantia Book will be distributed.  My evolution is in the Supreme, but my heart goes back over one billion years on Urantia when I set about bringing plants and animals to Urantia to help Mother Spirit evolve Urantia naturally.  In the billion plus years I have existed on Urantia. I never considered the heat of rebellion as part of myself and then had to pay for it by being called to Paradise to explain myself.

"What Paradise never told me was that God the Supreme never knew there was a rebellion on Urantia until he met Caligastia and Lucifer in the flesh to ascend the power of God over them and to dismiss their work as error and sinfulness.  By the time the Havona Supreme was taking in the consequences of rebellion, his Daughter, Urantia, was made destitute and God the Ultimate reversed evolution enough on Urantia, my namesake, to re-credit me in the eyes of Paradise.  These are Deity levels of compensation and never touch evolutionary life at the level of humans.  No human can concede any change to them except that the planet Urantia gets a second change to play out evolution starting sometime in or about 1952 when things really started going wrong for the planet and its population of God-knowing humans."

Ron - Larry, the probability of me ever taking this subject up as a class historian is zero.  I find it turns me inside out without ever convincing me I recognize what happens to me now versus what would have happened to me without the change at that Y,  We neither can predict what happened or know what could have happened, but we do know is that Urantia was set forth on a different millennia to restore itself and that old destruction forecast in books and magazines in 1952 cannot happen now.

But the real importance this subject offers is, how did the Ultimate make or break the Magisterial Mission as proposed in 1212?  Any idea?

Ron


Located in Historic York, Pennsylvania

LarryG

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Re: Nuclear History Partially Known on Urantia - Scenario Forecast
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2017, 12:55:25 AM »
Ron and Gaia, I cannot tell you just how much I appreciate your explanation of a subject that borders on the unexplainable to our finite minds.....it is a brilliant piece of work.

As an aside, being a product of 1944, making me 8 in 1952, I too remember being huddled around our  televisions watching those films of the  the hydrogen bomb tests and everyone being horrorfied by them.

Ron, as you and Gaia simplified this explanation by using the concept of  seeing it through "consequences"  and your use of the example of  the "Y" on the road of life's experiences  from1952  to this present time line,  and on into  our futures together in the OSZs, it really brings all of this together.

It is a little after 1 am , I am sitting outside on a quiet dark night under  the gazebo after  I woke up after a few hours sleep, still thinking about what you have shared here, and having now read your wonderful teaching and response 4 or 5 times just to experience the joy that learning contains.

I debated whether to even inquire about this but I have been thinking so much about it ever since you made your original post and began this most important and fascinating thread and I can now state that I am glad I did since it is an outstanding revelation.

Again, my deepest gratitude to you and Gaia for your patience and for "bringing me along"......LarryG
« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 01:44:25 AM by LarryG »
"What you are today is not so important as what you are becoming day by day so Let us be about the Father's Business"

roger krupa

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Re: Nuclear History Partially Known on Urantia - Scenario Forecast
« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2017, 04:31:47 AM »
I don't worry about the delays.  It makes sense to me that Michael would want to consult with the Trancendental beings of Paradise if He is planning to roll back the clock.  If such a thing has never been done before, He will want to get it right the first time.  I have no idea how this will affect us or our history books.  I only desire that this world become a better place to live and grow.
I wish to make this world a better place to live.  The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

Greg Steinhoff

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Re: Nuclear History Partially Known on Urantia - Scenario Forecast
« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2017, 07:55:50 PM »
These times are definitely intense in the proposition for nuclear exchange and countries raging against each other. I'm trying to stat up to date on the world media coverage. My faith is in Jesus whether he goes off to Paradise or stays for the mission. I really hope He does stay for the mission. I'm just staying focused in my state of spiritual rehabilitation as I call it. Prayer, focused meditation, and intellectual training in the Urantia Book. I still pray for a spiritual revolution to overcome this world because "the house that jack built" in my time here always seems to being going towards madness war driven in all its history. Micheal is much needed and I hope the Magisterial Mission will go through. Thank-you Ron for the scenario and the message. Domtia.
-Greg
Greg Michael Steinhoff