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Thank you, Phyllis.
Just beautiful!

GENERAL INTEREST INFORMATION / Re: What Happened Before the Big Bang NOT
« Last post by gitz on Today at 12:35:44 PM »
Thank you Ron for posting what RAYSON OF THE CENTRAL UNIVERSE, Magisterial Son, and Science Officer for Urantia in Nebadon has taught you about the Big Bang NOT. As Lemuel said, today is truly a good Friday. Today we learn about the origins of the Universes, even as just a beginning of understanding. 

I look forward to taking that cosmic bus someday with Rayson to the Central Universe. It is a dream come true to one day work alongside Rayson here on this tiny dot called Urantia. 
Thank you, Ron, for bringing this to us today.   Steven

Thank you Newstarsaphire for this.  It is wonderful and says a lot.

2019-4-8, NET #61, Machiventa
New Era Transition #61 – Solutions Coming; Revelation; Psychic Circles; Resistant Germs – Apr. 8, 2019
Machiventa Melchizedek, Planetary Manager
Solutions for our world coming from different sources
Values that underlie democracy
Using parameters on submitting to doing God’s Will
Advancements are quick in minds of God believers
Revelation is experiential on Urantia
Will this revelation become public at some point?
Clarification of “light is on the horizon”
Is leaving an estate to one’s offspring a DNA trait?
Can the desire to collect wealth be controlled epigenetically by society?
Evolution of a new form of capitalism
What does it mean that “Man is created in God’s image?”
Have many people have mastered their Psychic Circles?
How would we recognize these masters?
Might Adjuster fusion be visible on media?
Are healings a part of higher circle holders?
Are drug resistant germs a serious danger to world health?
Healing properties of nano silver
Can revelatory means compensate us for lack of Adam & Eve’s knowledge?
Are some regions globally more susceptible to drug resistant germs?
How can we protect ourselves from these germs?
What is your opinion on vaccinations?
Use of fungicides on crops
Suggested size for cities and smaller communities
Question on presentation to community leaders
Question on Planetary Management
Is the data base like “Google Nebadon?”
What other types of beings are on your staff?
Closing statements by Machiventa
TR:  Daniel Raphael, PhD
Team members present:  Roxanne Andrews, Rick Brunson, Craig Carmichael, Liz Cratty, Jeff Cutler, Stéphane Labonteé and Sherille Raphael.
Invocation:  Liz
April 8, 2019
Solutions for our world coming from different sources
MACHIVENTA:  Good morning, this is Machiventa Melchizedek, and I thank you for your presence here today.  If you are one of those people who subscribes to a newspaper or article clipping service, or you do that by yourself through reviewing the major headlines of different organizations and publications and articles that come through various newspapers or other news sources, you must obviously be coming to the recognition and appreciation of the upliftment in consciousness on your world.  There is great concern among mortals about the unconscionable behavior of misogynist individuals and those who perpetuate and use their wealth to create havoc for those who are less wealthy or less able to support and sustain their own livelihoods.  You are beginning to appreciate and see that there are solutions, that there are solutions coming from many different sources. 
Values that underlie democracy
Finally, we see that there are open discussions about the values that underlie democracy and how that plays out in the politics of your nation.  This One has read in an article today in the New York Times regarding the values of United States Democracy and the word “democracy,” compared to the word “republic” and “republican.”  This is a good discussion; this is part of our work to raise the consciousness of your world.  As these are contentious and much appreciated values in themselves, or topics in themselves, this will get much attention across your nation and internationally.  This is evidence of the work of the Most Highs and of Personal Guardians and Thought Adjusters offering options to those individuals who can write articles as this.  This is an important ingredient in the discussion between what works and what does not work.  It is not about right and wrong; it is not about who is right and who is wrong; it is not about political positions; it is about what works.  The discussion of values begins to open up the topic of what works and what does not work.  What must come next now is a discussion of these values—the 7 values of Homo sapiens and the subsequent ethics and morality that emanate from those values—as being the most important to underlie democracy, the family and all social institutions of democracies.  Of all the nations of this world, we do the most work to influence the rest of the world, and that is one nation which includes Canada, United States and Japan.  Japan, as you know has not been a topic that we have been involved in; they are deeply immersed in their own decision-making processes of their democracy and in their economy.  The God relationship is essential in the nations I have mentioned to support the work of the Most Highs and the 7 Mind Adjutants.
MACHIVENTA:  You will see this influence continue to grow.  It is from the realm of dialog discussion and argumentation that what works and what does not work will come forward.  It is essential in this scheme of Christ Michael’s work of the Correcting Time that the concepts and philosophies and ideologies that do not work are firmly trounced, that they are firmly shown and illustrated not to work, that they do not contribute to the sustainability of your world or of nations and of families and of organizations.  What works are those 7 values, and of course a personal and intimate relationship with God, whether that is through a church that you go to once a week, or whether you have daily conferencing with your Thought Adjuster through the day, the week and the month and the rest of your life.  God is as near as you want to be to It, for It is already intimate to your mind and is fully aware of what you are doing, what you are thinking, and the decisions you make.
Using parameters on submitting to doing God’s Will
It is most essential to those people who do believe in God, who do believe in a Thought Adjuster, who do believe in personal guidance from Spirit, from God, for the Angelic Corps and others, to be willing to submit the course of their life to doing God’s Will.  For most of you, this may seem to be very risky business, because it could lead you in a direction away from your lifestyle, and so on.  Yet, this need not be so; you can put parameters—not conditions, but parameters—on your willingness to do God’s Will in the pursuit of your life’s course.  You may put a parameter on it that you are willing to accept all that you can without having your life disrupted immensely, or that it affect your family negatively.  And as you know, such parameters are most acceptable because it is in the highest interest of all of us, and your Thought Adjuster that your children receive the best upbringing they can and that you be there for them to do that.
Advancements are quick in minds of God believers
As we see your world, this nation and other nations, where the influence of religion and discussion of God, liberty and democracy are on the forefront of most people’s minds then we have an opportunity to make great advancements quickly.  You are—and we have told you, and we acknowledge you—are the ones who maintain consciousness of this upliftment of your civilization across the world.  You are the ones who maintain this consciousness and move that consciousness forward around the world.  When you blow a bubble out of a bubble pipe that children have, imagine that bubble encompassing you and your house, and that the outside of this bubble perimeter goes down through the world, across the nation so that the outside of this bubble is formed complete and surrounding the earth.  When you see your consciousness as this, the energy, remarkably, is not dissipated; it is as though you are speaking to an individual whom you love very much, and whom you embrace in your mind’s eye and in your heart and in your consciousness.  You can do this same powerful effect upon the whole earth; it is with you that we co-creatively embrace the earth and all people in it with the spiritual enlightenment of Christ Michael and Nebadonia.  We are here for you; we are here for you in every possible way and it is our intention to make your world more livable, more peaceful and the relationships you have with others, and particularly with yourself are loving, kind, generous and benevolent.  Only in this way will the Days of Light and Life and the spirituality of the whole civilization be uplifted.
Stéphane:  Good morning and how are you today?
MACHIVENTA:  I am very well, thank you.  I have parted my hair and combed it back and I look very nice today!  (Much laughter.)
Revelation is experiential on Urantia
Stéphane:  Very good.  As you were giving us the introductory statement, I kept being reminded about the pace of change that we are going through.  The Urantia Book is going through at length of stating the difference between evolutionary religion and revelations of a religious perspective, and I think we are living that today.  We are the agent of change from those revelations to implement the revelations into social sustainability.  I think this is very unusual in the universe, if you could comment on that.  I think we are one of the few planets where revelation is being instated at such a high pace.  Can you comment on this?
MACHIVENTA:  Most willingly and gladly.  You are exactly right that Urantia is an experimental planet, and the fact that revelation being experiential at this time on your planet is an immense undertaking.  It is essential that this living revelation also come to bear upon the discussion between active living revelation and the formed state and crystallized religions of the world that are based on the relationship with God the Creator.  The speed of this revelation is as you acknowledged very, very rapid—it is not just quick, it is very rapid—and it is essentially so because of the conjoined efforts of Christ Michael and Nebadonia to uplift this planet rapidly.  Christ Michael is deeply involved in the social, political, economic balancing of those equations that support functional societies through the Correcting Time; and, Nebadonia is intensely involved in the upliftment of consciousness across the world and in groups of individuals, as are the Most Highs.  These two efforts are, as I said, “conjoined,” they are personal efforts on the part of Christ Michael and Nebadonia, and they are joined and linked without separation.  It is essential that this consciousness pervade all minds on your planet and particularly those of influence for making decisions in organizations.  As I have said in past sessions, Urantia is a hotbed, a laboratory of infusing more elevated spiritual influences to upstage it quickly on social, political, economic and all social institutional levels so that your world is able to recover after the forthcoming cataclysms, one of which has already begun in the weather.  It is essential to them and to myself that there be large remnants of population who understand this undertaking.
This subtle revelation to you should signify that there is a direct effort to work with many people to understand this current revelation of the Teaching Mission, Magisterial Mission and all that encompasses under the umbrella of the Correcting Time.  It will not be odd that this becomes known publicly.  It is a fact to us that it is essential that the spiritual influence on this world becomes known to many people, not as some esoteric, fluffy-aired thinking, but something that is directly connected to the life and living of individuals, families and nations and the civilization of your world.  It is important that this revelation be conducted in a way that is meaningful, honest, forthright and authentic.  The charlatans will soon come out and want to emulate what we are doing; their trickery will become known very soon.  It is essential that the very core of that revelation process, reveal that the management of this world, is a conscious effort on the part on the management of the universe, particularly the Local Universe.  It is sufficient to have the civilization of earth know that there is a Planetary Manager and there is an intention for this world, and that the happenstance of difficulties and tragedies that exist are also evolutionary in the development of this world and were not caused directly by spirit, but are the consequence of the creation of this world and all that evolved in its forthcoming development.  In other words, “God is not at fault!”  God created the world and then came to watch and see how it evolved.
Did I answer all facets of your question?  And if I have not, please remind me.
Stéphane:  Yes, it’s a good start, thank you very much.  If you put this in perspective and the corporation analyzes the markets or whatever, or makes plans and then executes their plans—I think I want to put it in context here—knowing that the Lucifer rebellion was going to be adjudicated, there were plans put in place and these plans started happening in the mid ‘80’s and now we are living through this.  But clearly the decisions from upwards, is that revelation is the way of the future and as many people are willing to accept this and take part in this, then no one is excluded.  Correct?
MACHIVENTA:  That is correct.  As concerns the corporation, it would be very foresightful for a corporation to have worst case scenarios already made up for the survival of their corporation as a viable participant in the global market.  That would mean that there would be a tremendous loss of personnel, hard infrastructure of the corporation, etc., etc., whether that is making cars or producing petroleum products, fabrics or whatever it may involve.  That would also include agriculture and many of the basic skills that sustain a viable community and population.  Do you understand what I am saying and its intention?
Will this revelation become public at some point?
Stéphane:  Yes, I do.  What I’m wondering though is you mentioned earlier that this will become public at some point, and it’s okay, it’s part of the plan, and it’s all about gaining momentum to a certain point and that once enough people believe in the process, then it will exponentially grow.  Is that correct?
MACHIVENTA:  That’s correct.  In the meantime, you would probably not want to discuss in public your association with this esoteric source of information or of revelation as there is great skepticism in many markets.
Stéphane:  Thank you.
Clarification of “light is on the horizon”
Jeff:  Machiventa, I have two questions.  One is about a conversation you had with   Michel Levasseur on Jan. 30th of this year, and Michel sent this to me a while back.  In your conversation you said, “My friends, the light is on the horizon and truth, beauty and kindness will invade this beautiful planet in a flash of light that will affect the hearts of all living beings.”  Is this a figurative or a literal statement?
MACHIVENTA:  It is figurative.
Jeff:  Figurative; okay.  Is there anything about that that you wish to elaborate for us?
MACHIVENTA:  It is a good plan, do you not think?  (Laughter from group.)
Is leaving an estate to one’s offspring a DNA trait?
Jeff:  Yeah.  Okay, I have a question on epigenetics.  There is a human desire to leave a legacy of wealth, property or real estate to one’s offspring or family.  Is this a DNA trait?
MACHIVENTA:  At the outside, the answer is yes.  It is a means by which parents want to leave their children in better stead, or better situation, than when they were born and they came into their adulthood.  How it is developed and how it is shared with the offspring is another matter.  It does not require that more than an acre be shared with the children; it does not require that 5,000 acres be given to the children; neither does it require that $200 billion be left to the children, but simply that the children have the means by which they can improve the quality of their life and unlock the potential that is inherent in who they are and what they brought into their life.  The extent of keeping such vast wealth from being shared to the world for altruistic purposes is selfish, unethical, and immoral.  It is in many ways a personal decision that is not based on personal ownership, but on the personal ego of who they are and what they have done to leave a legacy from their own egos, as example.  You must surely have a following question to that?
Can the desire to collect wealth be controlled epigenetically by society?
Jeff:  Yes, Sir, I do.  Can this trait, or the trait of certain people who seem to want to collect wealth for the sake of collecting wealth, can this trait be controlled epigenetically by society at the macro level?  By what means do you think we will be able to change people’s hearts about the pursuit of wealth for the joy of personal wealth?
MACHIVENTA:  This is a matter of exercising the 3 secondary values of empathy, compassion and love for humanity.  It is an extension when one can see themselves as the guardian of great wealth and in compassion share this with the world in a way that is constructive and it truly aids the individuals who receive this in one form or another to develop their lives to produce, to sustain their own life and living in a more comfortable way, and their standard of living and their quality of life.  There are many mechanisms that can be done to fulfill that, and these have been shared with you most recently.
Evolution of a new form of capitalism
Jeff:  I have a last question, if I may.  You alluded to the evolution of a new form, or a modified form of capitalism in a recent past session.  My question as a follow-up to that is that the “friendly society model of Great Britain and the friendly societies that were built in the United States in the 18th Century,” are they worth revisiting as a partial solution to the aftermath of calamities?
MACHIVENTA:  Yes, they are as we have always suggested in all our recommendations is that do not throw out the model in total, but rather select the parts of a working model that are most beneficial and then modify them for use in the current era.  The discussion of doing away with a model and totally replacing it is not worthy of much consideration.  This does not lead to social progress and social evolution in the many social institutions that are affected by these models.  Do you understand?
Jeff:  I think so.  I would like to spend some time contemplating this and come back to you with a more poignant question, if I may.
MACHIVENTA:  You are most welcome to.
What does it mean that “Man is created in God’s image?”
Stéphane:  I have another question.  Machiventa, the greatest revelation to me in the UB and what has been coming through this group is the fact that “Man is created in God’s image,” but what does that really mean?  It means that man can make decisions and if these decisions are aligned with universe or realities and God centeredness then these decisions can be created and can eventually end up into commands to have help from the universe to execute these decisions.  Am I correct in aligning “Man being created in God’s image” to these concepts?
MACHIVENTA:  Most definitely, but do not forget that God carries with It the values that support and sustain the universe, and God has also embedded these same values in the hearts and minds and the DNA of your species.  When one wills to do God’s Will and express that in their life in whatever medium that they are living in, then that means to fulfill those 7 values in their lives and for their lives and others.  God not only gave you a life with an eternal potential, but gave you the means to make independent decisions with the values that underlie those decisions.  The choice then is to recognize those values, your decision-making and the potential for the ascendant career.  One of the aspects of the Teaching Mission is to share this wisdom and knowledge with all other people.
Have many people have mastered their Psychic Circles?
Stéphane:  Okay then, so in doing this, then one advances through the Psychic Circles and through soul growth, etc.  And if I was to look at a cross-section of the population today, I would not notice many people who have mastered this?  Would you agree?
MACHIVENTA:  Yes, I would definitely agree.  The percentage of population that is in conformance with this is far less than 10%.
How would we recognize these masters?
Stéphane:  So, if we had somebody that had truly mastered this, such as Jesus when he was living here 2,000 years ago, how would we recognize this, such an advanced person living on this earth today?
MACHIVENTA:  I chuckle because it is the same process that Jesus used to become acquainted with the friends and people around him.  He spent time getting to know them.  He talked with them and they talked with him.  He was a master at this because he could understand the mind and working of the individual before him, and he always engaged individuals who had an openness to them and be willing to discuss their lives and the manner that would benefit them, whether that is practically on how to farm, or build a boat, or how to have a good relationship in the family.  He is the prime example for this process.  Once you begin to practice this consciously and intentionally you will become more acquainted with how Jesus did this.  When you come into a room and you see an individual that you would like to have a discussion with, there is already within you the recognition of this person as being open.  It is only rare that you would approach that individual and they would shun you or disregard you or show indifference to what you are saying. 
You have this innate antenna that homes in on individuals who are open and ready to do this.  And it is that individual that you would go to to discuss.  Knowing that you have this “antenna,” the first thing when walking into a room is to have awareness.  You come into a room, or to a meeting that you have with someone, and you have the awareness that you are conscious of their presence and that you and the alter ego of your will-self/observer-self are present there too.  It becomes an almost out of body experience as the observer-self observes you interacting with that individual and you in contact with your observer-self in its wisdom will engage that person with a purpose, meaning and intention that unlocks the secrets that you seek.
Stéphane:  This is a very personal situation, face-to-face.  I’m thinking with the advent of media and the way that we interact over devices these days, that process is much less effective through a device than on a one-to-one basis.
MACHIVENTA:  Before the arrival of cell phones and personal video screens in front of the individual, there was old fashioned television, and people would be glued to their television watching what was going on, and this is how many television evangelists have gathered their followers; they were convincing, they were persuasive, and so on.  The God conscious individual can also do this in front of the camera to project their presence through that visual means to each individual of that audience.  It is something that we have practiced with others and that other mortals have done this on their own with great results.  The difficulty in such a situation of mass media is that it is often highly detrimental to the speakers, personality and ego structure.  It rather overwhelms them.  What is required is a tremendous sense of humility as one of the audience as they sit or stand before the camera and speak to the audience.  This is most—I would not say “rare,” but it is not a frequent factor in many people who are in front of television cameras, and so on.
Might Adjuster fusion be visible on media?
Stéphane:  So, would you say there are people living on Urantia today that have achieved the higher circles and are close to Adjuster fusion, or is there a possibility within their lifetime that could express and influence in some aspects that might become visible on media?
MACHIVENTA:  Yes, there are a number of people who are approaching fusion and who have ascended through the circles and who have a oneness with their God presence within them that is immediate and personal, intimate, and that it is simply a matter of joint decision of the Planetary Thought Adjuster and the personal Thought Adjuster to have this fusion come into existence as an experiential happening.  These people are oftentimes reticent to be public; they are oftentimes very what you might call holy and reserved, and who are not seeking fame or fortune or ego embellishment.  These individuals are very quiet about who they are and what they are doing.  They are the quiet mystics in the closets of their religions who know God as one and they are one with that God, and that almost all of them are not even conscious of the possibility of fusion with the God presence within them.  I wish to hear an agreement from Stéphane that I answered his question.
Stéphane:  Yes you have, but my follow-up would be:  If one person were to fuse and it would become a public event, would that be considered as favorable for the movement we are in?
MACHIVENTA:  Yes, it would be very highly favorable, and of course it must be recorded by several different types of cameras and the sensitive mediums that they would record on, whether it is from gamma-ray radiation, light radiation, infra-red, ultra-violet and so on, as to help those scientists understand what occurred in the recordings.  And yes, it would be very helpful for this to occur.
Are healings a part of higher circle holders?
Stéphane:  So I’m thinking of this as an event such as Jesus was trying to do in his lifetime, such as his public baptism with the apparition above his head at the time and with the public miracles or healings that he was doing throughout his lifetime.  About the healings, as one ascends the circles, does the healings become part of an expression for the higher circle holders?
MACHIVENTA:  Yes, it does, but it is a latent capability that would need to be awakened by the individual and in discussion with their Thought Adjuster and Celestial Helpers to develop this skill into an active practice.  That is the most arduous path to accomplish that; it can be accomplished by the simple will-decision of the individual to extend their hand to another and say, “You are healed.”  This is in the keeping of Christ Michael as Jesus, and it is a capability that evolved individuals can express.
Stéphane:  So, following up, it’s not necessary to be a high circle achiever to start having healing capabilities?
MACHIVENTA:  That is correct.
Are drug resistant germs a serious danger to world health?
Roxie:  I have some questions submitted from Rick.  “How serious to world health is the rise of drug resistant germs?”
MACHIVENTA:  It is very high.  This is the realm in which the medical services of your world Health Organization and all the volunteer and helpful supportive medical teams will be confronted with the possibility that they do not have the medical weaponry to thwart or stop the onslaught of these pathogens.
Healing properties of nano silver
Craig:  We’ve heard from a few Celestials about the healing or antibacterial properties of nano silver and I was wondering, compared to antibiotics, it seems to me it must be a fairly subdued effect for healing and elimination of harmful bacteria.  Would you care to comment on that?
MACHIVENTA:  Yes.  When you begin dealing with nano structures, those structures have the capability of becoming embedded in cells, and if they are nano-small enough they can actually embed in the nuclei of the cell and have an effect upon the health of the individual.  There must be great care taken in the size of the nano structures that they do not enter into the chromosomal genetic structures themselves and become disruptive to the organization and sequencing of the development of the organism.  Silver has a latent potential for great harm, as well a great good.  You might take the opposite structure of copper, which is highly abrasive to the human structure, but it is necessary yet for human metabolism and the development of the individual.  A little bit is good, but too much is dangerous.  Do you understand?
Craig:  Yes, thank you, and so the silver nano structures, there are apparently some that would be more healthful and others that might be harmful?
MACHIVENTA:  That is correct.
Craig:  So it is up to us to find out, probably by experience which things help more and which don’t.
MACHIVENTA:  I am advised that this can be done in an experimental situation in the laboratory at the cellular level, without having to subject a living organism as a mouse or bird or human to that examination and that trial by error and trial by success process.
Craig:  Ah!  So we need to study this on a more formal level in scientific laboratories than is being done at the moment.
Can revelatory means compensate us for lack of Adam & Eve’s knowledge?
Stephane:  Machiventa, we know that Adam and Eve when they came here had lots of knowledge about healing from the major nature or otherwise, and of course all that knowledge is perhaps all gone now, but can all of that be compensated through revelatory means that are now available to us?
MACHIVENTA:  The answer is a yes and a no.  It is more readily accessible by those individuals who have been infused with the blue race, that they are remnants of those genetic structures that have this capability that is latent within them.  The “no” is that it is not available to all people because it is not part of their gene structure.
Are some regions globally more susceptible to drug resistant germs?
Roxie:  I’ll ask Rick’s second question:   “Are there certain areas or regions globally that are especially susceptible to drug resistant germs related to diseases?”
MACHIVENTA:  Yes, most definitely there are.  Those are the areas where there has been promiscuous use of antibiotics and that there are now areas in tropical areas which have many indigenous diseases and viruses, pathogens that can be very highly detrimental to human life.  The overuse of antibiotics is a prime example of that and most recently you can find areas where the use of antibiotics have been dispensed as non-prescription drugs, meaning that if you have the money, you can buy the drugs and dispense it yourself.  When this happens in areas and geographic regions where this is possible it becomes a highly effective developmental area for the production of pathogens that are resistant to all antibiotics.  And yes, there are pathogens that do exist which will not succumb to existing antibiotics.
How can we protect ourselves from these germs?
Roxie:  Rick’s third question is:  “Are there specific measures we can take individually to protect ourselves and loved ones?”
MACHIVENTA:  The question is ambiguous as it seems to be assumed that the topic remains on antibiotics and resistant pathogens, and I will answer it in that way.  Yes, there is; there are definite measures for doing so.  One, to raise children who are used to being acquainted with local indigenous pathogens through the soil, and that they are not exposed to pathogens in hospitals and in regions where there are many people gathered.  The human body can gain tremendous resistance to all types of pathogens through mother’s milk in nursing and from playing on the floor, and so on.  It has been proven even by your own scientists that over-care and over-cleanliness of children has led to the development of allergies to substances which have not raised allergenic problems in the past.
The ideal situation is to raise children naturally and authentically where they live to accept and to be resistant to the local pathogens.  This in itself helps to boost the immune system within the person.  When they become adults, they will be traveling, they will be in many areas, and they will be among large groups and so on, seeing many people in passing.  The necessity of remaining apart from those who are carrying those pathogens is important.  You have already had discussions and directions and instructions how to care for yourself when you are traveling via public mass transportation for protecting yourself from the transmission of diseases, etc.  It is not that we are trying to develop a bunch of “clean freaks” or those who are bio-phobic in any way, but the natural good sense of washing your hands when you have been in public will serve you in good stead.  Is this too fundamental to your question?
What is your opinion on vaccinations?
Roxie:  That was Rick’s question, but I do have some follow-ups.  I know that there are quite a few people who are very resistant to or negative towards vaccinations.  What is your opinion on that?
MACHIVENTA:  It is a morally obligatory action to take.  It is moral because it is far better to vaccinate and lose one person who is intolerant to vaccinations than to not vaccinate and have hundreds or tens of thousands of people who will die because of transmission from a person who did not vaccinate.  It is a moral issue to us.  It is a fundamental aspect of Planetary Management and the social evolution of your societies and the maintenance and sustainability of your societies.
Use of fungicides on crops
Roxie:  You addressed the overuse of antibiotics.  What about the use or overuse of fungicides on crops?  Do you see that as a problem?
MACHIVENTA:  It is one of those borderline situations where overuse, similar as overuse of antibiotics can lead to greater and greater problems.  Minimal use is advantageous to the industry and to the preservation of grains and stocks and so on.  I provide this minimal answer rather than not answering at all.
Suggested size for cities and smaller communities
Roxie:  Some of your answers today seem to point toward the reason why it has been suggested that we not have cities over 50,000 I think.  Is that related to your answers?
MACHIVENTA:  Yes, it is advantageous to have cities of less than half a million, which would be a collection of clusters of smaller communities of 50,000, and within those would be clusters of 500.  Such a design offers the possibility that communities that are developed that are highly useful to families and to common values of personal life, family life and to societal life.
Roxie:  Thank you.
Question on presentation to community leaders
Liz:  I’m speaking to a small group of community leaders next week about the 7 core values and the design team process.  And then Jeff sent me a lovely and inspired vision of the 7 core value community, he has a kind of expansive vision— and this made me wonder. My understanding of the design team process is that it starts with the tiniest most basic small decisions that interlock, this process interlocks with this process, and interlocks with the next process, which eventually becomes a system upon which other things build.  So, would an over-arching vision be prejudicial to the design team process as it starts out with these very basic building blocks?
MACHIVENTA:  Yes, it would be prejudicial.  Our emphasis is on the individual who sits in front of you, and they are concerned or are thinking about “How can I make this relevant to me?”  If your audience is overwhelmed by the over-arching concept and design and such and such, then you will lose them.  They want to know how they can resolve a difference or find agreement with a neighbor over a simple problem.  It is incredible that people can argue about building fences between houses, and whether to resolve that difference because the open space behind the houses is highly useful to everyone.  That simple question could be resolved and that problem could be resolved through the design team process involving several people on a team, and perhaps if there was greater concern, there could develop several teams, and then conferring with all the teams present about their findings.  Does this make sense?
Liz:  Yes it does; I understand completely what you are saying.  “We” have an understanding that the eventual goal is Light and Life, and that is an over-arching idea that we can work toward with our little tiny building blocks that is headed in that direction.  But I’m thinking when we are starting out with introducing the design team process.  I think you and I are in agreement about the vision for the future with regards to community.
MACHIVENTA:  Yes, you are correct.  It is important that you advise or promote common values that are common to everyone as a means of finding common understanding about the values for making decisions.  If there is a difference of values, then there will be a difference in interpretation of the values that people will have.  Remember, in the schematic that there are the 7 ultimate values, and then there are a number of interpreted values.  Oftentimes people will rely upon their interpreted values as “the” values that they rely upon to make their decisions, and when you would ask them about those interpreted values, what underlies the decision to act out those decisions, based on the interpreted values.  It is not complex; semantically it may be confusing, but it is a simple process of getting down to the values that guide all human beings to survive. 
Liz:  Thank you for that answer; yes, I am sure there will always be people who disagree with these values, and have to through trial and error have to learn that in fact, these are the appropriate values that need to be used when working in a design team.  But I am sure there will be trial and error.
MACHIVENTA:  I am advised to ask you whether you have a handout that they can take with them to go home and use.
Liz:  I do.  (Machiventa:  Wonderful.)  So, then I have a couple of personal questions if you would entertain those?
MACHIVENTA:  I would be glad to.
Question on Planetary Management
Liz:  As Planetary Manager, you surely have people who report directly to you and others who report directly to them?  Could you tell us a little bit about the hierarchy of your staff and what their areas of responsibility are?  I ask because I think this could be a model of hierarchies of responsibility here on the planet.
MACHIVENTA:  Yes, we do have hierarchies of duties and responsibilities.  The missing factor between my staffing process and their responsibilities and duties and that of humans is that we have common access to the data base that is common to all of us, meaning that we are aware of what the other person has been working on and what is relevant to their tasks and responsibilities and how they have been accomplished.  And yes, we have individuals who have very firm opinions and options that they think must be exercised to fulfill their duties.  It is part of my responsibilities to assist them in resolving these differences of opinions or options for problem resolution working with mortals.  This is an area of facilitation, much as a team leader facilitates the growth of team members.  It is a means by which I assist both individuals, or more than one, to come to an understanding of the higher meaning and interpretation of these options, and then offering them the positive, constructive side and the detrimental side, or questionable side, or the down-slope of those options.  This is a very intimate part of my work as a Planetary Manager, so that everyone has a common knowledge of that data base and the options that have been presented. 
It is very similar to a design team process in which you come to findings that are workable and constructive and findings that are detrimental and not working.  You are looking for results that are positive and meet the criteria of those values and the ethics and morality.  We are looking for the commonality of solutions that contribute to our work to uplift your world socially, so that the vast majority of people can grow spiritually in the positive ways.  It is a means by which we can use the capacities for option development that are available to us on a much grander scale than your scientists use with your supercomputers.  It may be analogous to using algorithms and variables in a supercomputer considering maybe a basic 100 variables.  We, however have the option through our own—this would be a faculty of the Most Highs that we have access to—is to run option developments through their—not a computer, but a “living being”—that has capacity to run several algorithms simultaneously involving 10,000 variables, and so if need be we can run through these differences of options through this process.  It is rare that this occurs, but it is a faculty of this living entity that we have access to and which is highly effective.  It, too, is a means for “proofing” the options that are available and individuals have come to.  The forward thinking of Christ Michael and who has access to reflectivity on all these matters, but his proposal in the Correcting Time is that we learn by doing, so that all the celestial realm learns as well as the mortals learn so that we can be most effective in the social and spiritual evolution of individuals and whole societies.  Your question is very insightful; it is intuitive and we appreciate it.  There is much more to be said about this, but this will keep you scratching your heads for a while.  (Laughter.)
Is the data base like “Google Nebadon?”
Liz:  Yes, indeed! So, this data base you speak of that you all have access to, what is the nature of this?  Is this like “Google Nebadon?”  (Laughter from all.)
MACHIVENTA:  That too, is a very intuitive question, which we respect very highly.  The answer is that in the living and past living memory banks of individuals who are on Urantia now and those who have passed have relevant information to the subject matter that is of the subject of inquiry.  The nature of this being is such that it has access to the archives of all human past living individuals, and particularly to the living memories of and current thinking of individuals on any planet.  On a normal planet, this would not even be a question that need be asked, but for a planet such as Urantia, which is a decimal planet and in the conditions it now lives in, and living with the past legacy, horrific legacy of the rebellion, that the need for this being’s computational skills comes into effect fairly frequently.  It is not that we are opting out of making decisions ourselves, but it is a matter of opting to the best possible solutions for current problems that are very transient on your world as cultural and social change is very rapid.  And thank you for your questions.
Liz:  Thank you for that.  So, when we ask you a question and you say, “One moment,” you are accessing this data base to inform your answer?
MACHIVENTA:  No, I do not access that grand facility.  I am accessing my own team to begin with.  They are present here in my advisements to this team and other teams around the world, as I have access to the immediate information that they have available.  This too is the positive side of selective thinking, that when I access the “Grand Google,” as you say of Nebadon, that it immediately has access to all relevant information, and with my advisory staff, they provide this information through me immediately.
Liz:  It’s very interesting and I think beneficial for us to have a window behind the curtain, so to speak, so thank you very much for your willingness to entertain these questions.
What other types of beings are on your staff?
Stéphane:  Machiventa, besides the Midwayers, the Angelic Corps and the Melchizedeks, what other types of beings on your staff are helping you in Planetary Management?
MACHIVENTA:  Also a very good question.  There are those who are present with us who are volunteers.  They have voluntarily come here to observe and advise.  They are those who are without Name or Number; there are those individuals who travel the universe and who have a nascent or immediate awareness of situations in the Grand Universe that they are attracted to, and so they go there and they are of assistance.  We are aware of their presence and knowing that, we ask them for any advisements that they have concerning the contemporary situation we are dealing with, whereupon they will either give us their advisements or not.  They are individuals who volunteer to come here, who have been attracted here, come here because they know they can be of assistance.  And as you know, service is the highest reward for one who has already learned the lessons of life.
Closing statements by Machiventa
Hearing no further questions, let us go to our closing then.  We thank you for your presence here today; we thank you for drawing closer and closer to who we are, and what we are about.  You are in many ways taking on the mind of Christ; you are taking on the mind of Christ Michael himself; with his presence you have the presence of Nebadonia as well.  When you open yourself even to this what you might call frivolous speculation and light hearted questions, you are in a way opening yourself to the Mind of Christ Michael.  He, as Jesus, was also very playful and as a teacher would ask questions as you are asking of others, and he in turn by doing so, was also open to receiving those questions to answer.  So, you are in turn beginning the ascent of asking meaningful questions which is the way of learning great wisdom.  You too, have great wisdom and as you do so, you have the capacity and are gaining the ability to enter deeper into the Psychic Circles and your inner potential for fusion.  This is not an enticement; this is not a means of drawing you closer; it is a means to tell you of your own self-awareness to think about your thinking, about what you are doing and how you are doing it, how you are living your life and of course this leads you into being a person who is engaging more meaningful service to yourself, your future eternal life, and that of others in your world.  For this we give great thanks and we salute you.  Good day.
# #
The Message of Easter

I believe in the message of Easter
that speaks from beyond the grave.

I believe in the God Man who preached it
from inception to mortal grave.

I believe the divine intention
the soul of mankind to save.

I believe there was no action lacking
in the poignant message He gave.

I believe in His words never spoken
to deaf ears of mortal man
that conveyed with greater impact
the fullness of divine plan.

I believe His example to teach us
and our failure to comprehend.

I believe we must keep listening
for He promised to come again.

I believe we should ever be mindful
of His guidance from above.

I believe He is still portraying
His message of forgiveness and Love.

I believe that for mankind’s freedom
there was nothing He wouldn’t do.

I believe the injustice He suffered
was a reflection of me and you.

I believe it was not His trial,
but the trial of all mankind.

I believe it revealed how malicious is sin
and the effects it leaves behind.

I believe that the generous droplets
that flowed from His head to His toes,
were but proof of mortal enshrouding
of the crimson heart within,
that beat with a Universe message
that we belonged to Him.

No trial was too great, no rejection too strong
to tear us from His grasp,
and His Love will still flow from our head to our toes
I we will only …ask…

Phyllis Simpson
10am Good Friday, 19 April 2019

GENERAL INTEREST INFORMATION / What Happened Before the Big Bang NOT
« Last post by Ron Besser on Today at 11:13:47 AM »

What Happened Before the Big Bang?

I am not going into gales of refutations on this, but our Science Officer, Rayson has spoken to this scenario and said the following.  "No Big Bang, but yes Great Searing Heat"

“Years did not exist before the Deities placed time to start working in the time-space areas of the Grand Universe.  Before there was even space, there was Havona, the surrounding space area that is the core of the universe.  That core of the universe we know as Paradise, and Havona existed immediately after the appearance of the mass materialization of Paradise itself.  When it was time to prepare the first experiential area of time and space, the Deities had to fill it with space first, and space is generated like I described to Ron long ago and he remembers it factually as little rubber=like dots of membranes that could turn themselves inside out and prepare the area they did this into an area that now has space in it.  That is a very crude example of being sure of nothing , but it does expalin how the Deities extend the idea of space into mirrors of the central universe itself.

“What scientists do is to postulate the Big Bang as they would postulate any explosion and then fail to recognize that no explosion regardless of its source of generation, can it create matter, but that explosions are really the result of having to release pressure building up too much to contain itself for any length of time. But please note, it takes time to reduce pressure as it is a sequence of events from 1 - no pressure 2 some pressure 3 too much pressure release of too much pressure 5 return to stasis.

The theorists forget that time is a sequence of events and not a rubber ball that is discrete and can be blown out into the universe like a ball in an explosion.  All forgive themselves for doing this by noting a heat echo they can measure with their instruments that surrounds earths for a reason they do not fathom.   That heat or thermal residue is actually the remnants of the collapse of the galaxy your sun Monmatia was derived from.  It has nothing to do with an explosion they theorize started the universe of matter and galaxies and so on.  I think Ron only wishes to show that the generation of the universe you can see with your own eyes, was actually generated from zero time to time by the fact that the Deities always precede a new space area with intense heat, and that is how they get the space devices we described above to cohere to each other, and when they, in unison, flush themselves inside out to form space, the heat is required to dissipate over eons of time before any matter is introduced into the new space areas.

“It took over five million trillion space devices just to start Superuniverse Number One to materialize/ It took more than that to materialize Superuniverses Two through Seven thereafter.  In all, the entire idea of a big bang is ludicrous as it fails to explain how God ever got involved as an idea of being in space at all, as God is not linear or time conditioned on Paradise, or the central gravity and creative control of time and space at all.”  RAYSON OF THE CENTRAL UNIVERSE.

AUDIO TAPE Transmissions Here / Re: Audio Transmission / GOOD FRIDAY
« Last post by Clency on Today at 10:42:45 AM »
Transcribed from Lemuel’s audio transmission

Good Friday

Lemuel : Good morning everyone. Well, as you all know to-day is Good Friday, what’s good about to-day ? I just want to share some thoughts with you this morning and the first thing I want to say is that I have not had the pleasure to talk to you for a while, couple of weeks it is now, mainly because of health issues which is an on-going thing, not just for me but others as well. As you know Ron Besser has been over the years with physical problems unbelievable and still alive, anyway it’s a process that never seems to end. The only thing to do is to laugh, there is no point crying about it. I will not talk about, I will not bore you, but it is never-ending.

Anyway, I want to talk to you about certain things going back to my childhood. I was so fortunate to be brought-up in a family of church-goers and I remember going to Sunday school when I was just a small boy from the age of three I think, going to Sunday school in the morning with my sister and learning  about JESUS and putting our palms together and crossing our thumbs to remind us of the cross and things like that and then later being a member of the choir and after being confirmed and become an altar boy and that sort of things. I must say that I will be eternally grateful for the fact that I had that religious teaching and formation in my very early years.

Of course now that I am so much older and hopefully I understand that my Beloved Thought Adjuster has been very successful in leading me to where I am now and the choice has always been whether to follow or not, but I think in my case I had no choice, because to choose something means when using one’s mind, but I followed because it was the feeling of my heart that made me follow, that wanted to follow the impulses of my Beloved Indwelling. Also understanding that even before I was borned my Beloved Thought Adjuster researched my family and took into account the possibilities or the potentials of His success, bringing me along the ascension path to have some understanding of Him and to become associated with Him, in a real relationship.

So, this brings me back to-day, Good Friday, and we all know now that because of JESUS after His Resurrection and from the day of Pentecost when it bacame possible for us to have the Thought Adjuster and to be comforted with the Spirit of Truth, the Holy Spirit. Also, one cannot help in thinking and thanking LORD MICHAEL OF NEBADON, how it was that He decided to choose this planet Urantia for His Seventh and Final Bestowal. Well, of course, we all know now if it were not for that, then we would know anything about JESUS and probably we would not have Thought Adjusters, and so in fact to-day is a Good Day, it is a Good Friday, because it brings us to the understanding that because of the Life and the Death and the Resurrection of JESUS, we are enjoying our Beloved Indwelling Thought Adjusters and the Spirit of Truth and the Holy Spirit throughout our lives and of course our Guardians and our Guides.

So, dear brothers and sisters, whatever your individual thoughts may be about to-day, it is obviously that we are able to feel and express or try to express our deep and sincere thanks to MICHAEL and to JOSHUA ben JOSEPH – JESUS – for giving us this day, this Friday, this Good Friday and what it means to us individually and what it means to millions upon millions of people throughout the world. So, I leave you with these thoughts this morning and it only remains to wish you all a very Good Friday and a very happy Easter Sunday and may your hearts be filled with gladness and gratitude for the Life of JOSHUA ben JOSEPH – JESUS – bye bye for now. Domtia
TRANSLATIONS / Re: Wiadomoci po polsku (Posts in Polish)
« Last post by Andre_P on Today at 09:25:58 AM »
Ta sama wiadomość po angielsku :
Przekaza : 7inOcean, członek-bohater
Kategoria / Temat : Miejsce na nowe przekazy / Sue, Pre’Mtor i Michał Nebadoński o Księciu Pokoju i inne
« 18 kwetnia 2019 r., godz. 21:18:03 »

Mówcy : Sue, Pre’Mtor i Michał Nebadoński
Temat : Książę Pokoju i plany Misji Michała
Przekazujący : Sue Whiley czyli 7inOcean
Miejsce : Geelong, Victoria, Australia
Data/Godzina : 19/04/2019 10.30 (australijskiego czasu wschodniego)

Sue : Witajcie moi drodzy przyjaciele, członkowie i goście,
Dzisiaj jest Wielki Piątek w Australii. Odpoczywałam dobrze i podchodzę do tych świąt z dobrym odpoczynkiem od ziemskich obowiązków, spędzając czas z Ojcem na modlitwie i uwielbieniu. Kiedy zastanawiam się nad tym dniem, nad wydarzeniem sprzed dwóch tysiący lat, z trudem patrzę na tamtą epokę, ponieważ jestem dzieckiem współczesnej epoki, a między nimi tak dużo wody przeplynęło pod mostami. Jest to historia z czasów, kiedy nasz brat, Jezus chodził, mówił i przyniósł dobrą nowinę o pokoju i miłości. Aniołowie i Gabriel, którzy przynieśli nowinę o jego przyjściu, aby zwiastować wiek, w którym ten Syn Boży ma przynieść życzliwość i pokój między ludźmi. Tragicznie Jezus nie został dobrze przyjęty przez swoich ludzi, którzy postanowili, że umrze śmiercią tak surową, która my, w obecnych czasach uważamy za barbarzyńską. Rzymianie byli okrutną maszyną wojny i śmierci. Przynieśli oni jednak porząek cywilny w imperium, które zdobyli tak ciężką walką, ale to inna historia, na inny dzień. Teraz myślę o Jezusie i dziś rano mój Dostrajacz starał się mnie zapewnić, że Michał pracuje nad nowym projektem, któremu można będzie zaufać podobnie, jak Jezusowi w jego czasach, że przyniesie jeszcze raz dobrą wolę i pokój naszej Ziemi.

Mówi Dostrajacz Sue, Pre’Mtor :

„Znacie prawdziwy sens tego, co Jezus przyszedł czynić i zajmować się sprawami Ojca. Osiągnął On wiele i przyniósł tak wiele dobrej woli swoim bliźnim. Teraz przynosi pokój Boży, a więc Ja, jako wasz Ojciec w was mówię, aby was powiadomić o Moim pokoju między wami. Bądźcie w Moim pokoju, tak jak Ja jestem w was i z wami. Jezus jest waszym Księciem Pokoju pośród was i posyłam go jeszcze raz do was z moim pokojem. Bądźcie w moim pokoju moi drodzy, kiedy Ja biorę wszystko na siebie. Jeśli zostanę podniesiony, przyciągnę do siebie wszystkich ludzi tak, jak Jezus starał się czynić i tym się zajmował, uczyni to ponownie, aby przynieść wam prawdę o tym, że On i Ja jesteśmy jednym i tym samym.

„Zbyt długo chodziliście wzdłuż długiej liny oddzielającej, która teraz musi przestać istnieć. Nadszedł czas, abyście poznali wasze Źródło i Centrum, w którym macie swój byt. To wasza wola z Moją, której szukam w was. Przyjdźcie do mnie wszyscy. Ja jestem światłem i drogą, wiecznym Duchem”.

Mówi Michał Nebadoński :

„Lanaforge i ja opracowujemy stopniowy program wznoszenia się pośród was, gdyż jest konieczne, aby doprowadzić was do przyspieszenia do stanu rozwoju Wszechświata Lokalnego. Wasz świat się cofnął i musi powrócić do poziomu dostrojenia umysłu i osiągnięć duchowych. Żeby to zrobić, będzie wymagało nauki i rozpowszechniania objawienia, które wkrótce zostanie ogłoszone. Jest to w przygotowaniu w naszych myślach, jednak jesteśmy świadomi wyzwań, jakie sama Urantia w tym przedstawia, bo w większości świadomość duchowa zamieszkujących obecnie Ziemię jest słaba. My jednakże nadal otrzymujemy zalecenia i rady z Góry, aby być poinformowanymi o odpowiednim sposobie radzenia sobie z buntem we wszystkich jego formach, które istnieją wśród ludności. Ojciec Wszechświata rozumie wiele wyzwań, przed którymi stoimy i że nie oczekujemy natychmiastowej naprawy, ale jest stosowne, żebyśmy się skupili na waszych wiecznych karierach. Zbyt wielu umiera, nie wiedząc ani nie dbając o swoje dziedzictwo. Wasze dziedzictwo, wasza historia, wasze przeznaczenie muszą być poznane, a sposób, w jaki się do tego zabierzemy, jest teraz w trakcie projektowania i wielu się tym zajmuje po tej stronie zasłony. Wiecie, że aby zbudować wspaniały budynek, architekci muszą najpierw zacząć rysować projekt, potem podjąć kroki w celu przygotowania przestrzeni do prac, starannie ułożyć fundamenty, na których spoczną kamienie, a struktura może być ukryta w błocie i w zaprawie murarskiej, żeby dobrze połączyć wszystko razem. Ciągłe staranne zarządzanie projektem będzie wymagało cierpliwości, wytrwałości i wierności, aby ta struktura nabrała kształtu z dużą pewnością i była cudem do podziwiania, gdy w końcu osiągnie wczesne etapy Światła i Życia.

W tym wszystkim zajmujemy się planowaniem, projektowaniem i wprowadzaniem w życie tych obszarów, które będą wykonalne i użyteczne wśród ludzi. Po tej stronie zasłony praca z ludźmi w Boskich Misjach nie jest dla nas zwykłą formą, ponieważ zwykle wsad jest duchowy i jest uznane, że wspinasz się po drabinie na kolejnych stopniach rozwoju i zrozumienia. Takie były kręgi psychiczne, które mają być w waszej podróży doświadczania. Wiecie, że budowniczy nie może pokazać ostatecznego produktu, dopóki pierwszy kamień nie zostanie położony i ustawiony, a potem wszystko inne znajdzie się na swoim miejscu i tak też będzie z wami, wiernymi dziećmi Boga. Poznacie drogę i wolę Ojca Wszystkich działającą w was w waszej podróży wiary. Ojciec położył kamień w was, na którym buduje i zdobywa wasze serca zwrócone na północ według Jego magnesu miłości i celu. Więc musimy zająć się pracą, aby doprowadzić do dobrej woli i miłości wśród ludzi. To jest droga piękna Ojca w was, aby być dobrymi i czynić dobro, kiedy On jest w was. Jestem waszym miejscowym Ojcem Wszechświata Lokalnego i przynoszę wam to, abyście wiedzieli, jaka droga jest i zawsze będzie dla was. Szukajcie Go, bo można go znależć, ponieważ On jest całkiem w was, jako wasza Duchowa Północ. Liczę na te sesję z takim samym uczuciem, jakie Sue miała dziś rano, abyście byli w moim pokoju i niech mój pokój będzie z wami dzisiaj. K.”

Dziękuję Ojcze, Michale Nebadoński i Lanaforge za przyniesienie tych serdecznych myśli do naszych umysłów, gdy pracujecie nad tym, aby przynieść rzeczy, których tak bardzo potrzebujemy w tym współczesnym dniu i wieku. Modlę się, aby wszystko dobrze działało w waszych planach i chęci służenia pomocą nam wszystkim drogą Ojca Wszystkich.

AUDIO TAPE Transmissions Here / Audio Transmission / GOOD FRIDAY
« Last post by Lemuel on Today at 05:54:10 AM »
Speaker: Lemuel
Location. Girona, Catalunya, Spain.
Date/Time: 19th April 2019  11:54 Local  09:54 Z
General Discussion / Re: Reading the UB - 2019
« Last post by CharlesL on Today at 04:21:52 AM »
Ready to begin reading Part II tomorrow.

Last night dreamed about the Urantia Book and Reflectivity. I had two copies of the book, one small and one large. The large one had pictures in it too. There was also what looked like a book or magazine that said on the cover something like "Call on Michael and He Will Answer", with a picture of him.

Someone told me they saw me through reflectivity, and they saw that I was starving. I was surprised but said, well I have been starving a little spiritually but that will change soon hopefully.

For reflectivity there were devices like little computers with a display and a camera. There was also a plaque with writing but I don't remember what it said. One device was directly above me or at a high angle so I had to turn my head back to look straight up at it. Then I would see the picture of someone on the other side, from the same point of view to them, from above their head looking down. With one of them the audio wasn't working.
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