Author Topic: Believe It or Not - see message inside  (Read 3042 times)

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overmind

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Re: Believe It or Not - see message inside
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2018, 10:10:12 PM »
@Ron: I'm glad I took the time to read through the Rayson science site some time ago so I could follow this somewhat.

@overmind: I wish we could sit down over a meal so I can disagree with your authoritative reply in a personally friendly setting instead of saying anything on a message board, when you mention A.B.

(1295.1) 118:1.1 It is helpful to man’s cosmic orientation to attain all possible comprehension of Deity’s relation to the cosmos. While absolute Deity is eternal in nature, the Gods are related to time as an experience in eternity. In the evolutionary universes eternity is temporal everlastingness — the everlasting now.

The past does not exist simultaneously with the present or future in the material universe. You can't visit that which is no longer actualized in the universe, plain and simple. You cannot go back in time, kill Hitler as a child (or anyone else), and then alter the state of the entire universe as a result. Everything would be chaos and nothing would have meaning. Immortality would not exist even after Adjuster fusion if anyone can go back and stop you from being born. Meanwhile, the cosmology the UB sets up does not allow for alternate timelines. All that exists are different projections of a possible future as well as the definite future (possibly pre-existing within infinity) that the I AM occasionally attempts to not look at. Human decisions are meaningless without consequences, and there are no consequences when decisions can be undone. Also, why does spirit not participate in this to the degree humans could if it was so easy? Why couldn't Caligastia or Lucifer escape Gabriel by leaping backwards and forwards in time? Why couldn't Michael go back and choose not to create those beings in the first place? Why has God mandated that free will be sacrosanct if the free will choices of his creatures can be removed from spirit record by the said creatures messing with time? How do you get around the fact that time travel in general has glaring paradoxes that even fiction has trouble reconciling?

Do you not see the ultimate issue at play, here? God created and controls reality. He would not allow time travel to be possible in the way that it is described. Why? It allows anyone to directly alter both God's decisions as well as his relationship with his children. It would grant any mortal or spirit being alike the ability to hamper the progress of the universe indefinitely, ignoring the fact that such a destiny would no longer hold weight in the first place because consciousness, will, experience, truth, beauty, goodness -- all things that make the growth of the soul and the Supreme possible cannot be guaranteed to last. There would not even be a true present reality. All possibilities would exist simultaneously in an ever-changing stupor of meaningless struggle. To God, it'd likely be no different than the Infinitude.

Also, how do you deem teleportation of a human possible if no one, morontial or spiritual, can do that to get around? Even the transport seraphim, who's sole goal is to transport beings around the universe, have to utilize the streams of energy in the universe to move about the environment (and while they're really fast, it's not instantaneous). The only place where the rules of space travel do not apply is Paradise, and it's not entirely clear to us what movement there will look like without a personal visit.
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Dominick O

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Re: Believe It or Not - see message inside
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2018, 10:34:00 PM »
My understanding is that time travel is better described as time viewing in that no is travelling around like you're describing, instead, they are observing without participating.

Teleportation in the form of transport could be more like creating portals in space-time rather than travelling though it.  Conceptually, like what the video appeared to do, just saying.

overmind

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Re: Believe It or Not - see message inside
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2018, 11:48:23 PM »
My understanding is that time travel is better described as time viewing in that no is travelling around like you're describing, instead, they are observing without participating.

Teleportation in the form of transport could be more like creating portals in space-time rather than travelling though it.  Conceptually, like what the video appeared to do, just saying.

Observing the past as a form of record is possible. Stepping into that past is not. Just being present in the environment means interacting with that environment. If his claim were true that his picture was taken in the past as a little boy, then he would have altered the future.

The concept of utilizing space folds to jump ahead through space has been explained here, but that's not teleportation. That is finding an alteration in how space is distributed and utilizing that to travel a greater distance in less time. Even then, it's not visible to the naked eye, and for all we know is just a concept here on this forum. The reality of it has yet to be discovered. The same is true with the more widely discussed idea of wormholes.
I wanted to sail, so the universe built me a galleon.

Ron Besser

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Re: Believe It or Not - see message inside
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2018, 12:29:39 AM »
Overmind: You wrote:
“Also, how do you deem teleportation of a human possible if no one, morontial or spiritual, can do that to get around? Even the transport seraphim, who's sole goal is to transport beings around the universe, have to utilize the streams of energy in the universe to move about the environment (and while they're really fast, it's not instantaneous).”

Ron here Overmind: We have in the Urantia Book a good example of teleportation.  In the description of vacating a planet in an emergency, the Melchizedek use a design that scramble our molecular bodies to moves us to a new residence far distant from the emergency on their planet.  These machines are huge and they can carry up to fifty thousand people at one time according to Machiventa Melchizedek and Mantutia Melchizedek in my ear right now.  In an emergency the teleportation of people is routine and not at all science fiction, at least for the Melchizedeks that is.

Paper 51:
51:2.3   “51:2.3 While there is this dematerializing technique for preparing the Adams for transit from Jerusem to the evolutionary worlds, there is no equivalent method for taking them away from such worlds unless the entire planet is to be emptied, in which event emergency installation of the dematerialization technique is made for the entire salvable population. If some physical catastrophe should doom the planetary residence of an evolving race, the Melchizedeks and the Life Carriers would install the technique of dematerialization for all survivors, and by seraphic transport these beings would be carried away to the new world prepared for their continuing existence.”

The Melchizedek machines are what is referenced in the above quote and Machiventa Melchizedek says that only one world was evacuated by such machines and that was nearby Panoptia which is a statement that got cut when the Urantia Book was edited down for publication in 1955.

The point to be made is that teleportation, which can variously be defined as moving the body of a human being (or a material object) from one place to another often quite distant and reassembly of that human or object at the new site.  This is successfully done on earth too and I point to Harry Loose who could move from one place to be seen speaking to people in another place.  Teleportation does not have to have a linear transit, but it appears it can be modified according to the need of the teleporter which is the Melchizedek case is a machine, and in Loose’s case is the personality of Loose.

I just wish to make the point Overmind, that materialism is an assembly of molecular patterns and patterns can be deconstruction both by Deity and by divinity although we in the case of Harry Loose cane dematerialize through a side technique I think is called teleportation without nemesis.  What that means is that Harry did not dislocate his molecular body structure but lost it along the way in a storage facility inside the morontial grid we have so often talked about.  We cannot motivate science well enough to provide a molecular deconstruction machine but the personality of man can teleport itself in the local areas such as on one planet through the process of teleportation witout nemesis.


There is something else we have to be careful not to dismiss, You state Overmind that the natural construction of human reality is always and truly in the present.  That we cannot view the past by stepping back.  I do not argue strongly you are wrong, but the past I remind you is part of the present and so is the future in potential.  I do not think that is hard to figure out.  What is hard to figure out is how man can review the past in memory and reconstruct its present effects as a changed future.  Teleportation though throws that askew somewhat and it is very hard to describe what you cannot see, but teleporation sets spirit vectors free, Do you know what I am talking about?  Let me explain spirit vector(s).

When I say I want to be a doctor at age 20, that is a potential stated in the presence of a now 20 year old as a material being who is locked into present reality at that point.  However, the all-seeing Father knows that I will find the present spirit vector which is a parallelogram of spirit pattern in absolute space, as it is unleashed from the codification of potentials as Absolutes in the circle of Infinity probably through the Deity Absolute,

Picture this vector unleashed by the Father for me as a paper air plane.  It is quite real and it carries the assemble circumstances to reorder one future for another.  For me to use it, I have to be somewhat like Harry Loose and open the door to changed perspective of view to deny certain other vectors that alter my future and select the circumstances that paper air plane passes to me to act upon to become a doctor.

Let me explain this way and now Michael is helping me:

Spirit vectors are sent by Father to certain personalities to order their future early in life.  Ron saw this in high school where certain classmates knew exactly what they were to become and went right to it when they graduated.  For myself, I had no such vectors whatsoever and languished for decades to find womthing to be employed by I really liied to do.  But such a vector never came to me until I was 46.  That year Father unleashed one hell of a vector for me to grasp and take advantage of and I did and I now seek work in a Magisterial Mission.  That means some spirit vectors are useless until time matures the receptor (me) and that is true of the man Dominick is talking about.  That individual Dominick knows can do teleport and can do past regressions with the help of spirit forces on our planet we have never discussed.

Spirit vectors are present today for you Overmind and it depends on how you adapt to them that determines what opportunites you take.  Ambivalence of acceptance of any proposition is countered by a spirit vector that finds its mark and more or less trains the person who receives them to turn off ambiance and brings back enthusiasm for a particular mode of action or adoption of a whole subject to learn about.

The literal and mass presentation of the real past does not exist.  However in personal spiritual experience it can be reentered and plans differently layed to alter present circumstances and all future changes when one knows the vector is position over one’s head to use for opportunistic development.

Finally, I admire Dominick’s way of telling you you do not understand what is truly being talked about.  He is not wrong to point out that teleportation is a genuine spiritual phenomenon, but that individual persons have to adopt it uses by modifying what works for which mind and how that body of the chooser is safely reacting to the mode we call teleportation.

MICHAEL OF NEBADON -
“Ron asked me to speak to this in closing.  Ron has no use for the technique because he sees no point in learning something he is not interested in using.  Harry Loose used it effectively over and over again and he is famous on the mansion worlds to be able to appear on two mansion worlds at the same time and be conversant with all meetings in both places too.  I dare say that you Dominick are quite capable of doing that, and George Banard scared Ron out of a year;s growth by appearing in a chimera in his bed room many years ago to have a small chat on mutual interests.  George Barnard is quite capable of doing all these things yet he tires of them too like Ron does, and if there were an important use for them, both men would take it on.  Ron carries the antecedent gene to all men who can become Melchizedeks but fails to care enough about it to develop it in the past.  His spirit vector had to be held back almost 47 years and then he nearly lost it due to the heat of terrible cirumstances happening at the same time.  He survived as does George Barnard and a few others still on Urantia, but I will close that port down until we have fully established the sixth epochal revelation on Nystoria.  All will find the subject of teleportation useful but not practiced in a few short years.  Good day. Michael.”

END
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LarryG

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Re: Believe It or Not - see message inside
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2018, 09:20:08 AM »
This has been and is a fascinating subject.   When I read the references to "spiritual vectors" I immediately remembered the equally fascinating discussion we had:

Learning Esoteric Mathematics
« on: January 15, 2017, 03:02:06 PM »

I did some further research since this is so interesting and that in truth,"all things are possible with the Father," and when I put "vectors in the search engine of  the TM Archives there was  quite a bit of information presented, and interestingly enough, it was presented to Daniel Raphael and the Teachers were none other than Monjoronson, and Machiventa Melchizedek.

In the discussion about Learning Esotheric Mathematics one of the papers referred to was: “New Era Transition #10 – Events and Vectors of probability; Urgency of the Default; Revelation Continues – Jan. 9, 2017"   I tried to locate  this but so far I have been unable to find it.


Hopefully both Daniel Raphael and Jerry Lane will be able to find the means  to join with Ron and settle their differences since I have enjoyed the work of both of these  Transmitters and feel they would be a definite  help to the Missions.

The information disclosed about Harry Loose and George Barnard is very enticing as we learn more about this subject.

When I read Ron's reply to Overmind stating : "
Spirit vectors are present today for you Overmind and it depends on how you adapt to them that determines what opportunites you take.  Ambivalence of acceptance of any proposition is countered by a spirit vector that finds its mark and more or less trains the person who receives them to turn off ambiance and brings back enthusiasm for a particular mode of action or adoption of a whole subject to learn about, I began wondering, as we all might, just what and how this might apply to my own "spiritual vectors"  as far as my personal hopes and dreams of "possible" and probable futures.... What immediately came up is my deep interest in  attaining some experience, however far into the future, with "Spiritual Diplomacy",.. not Political  but Spiritual.   Our planet is just so lacking in anything thing resembling truth, beauty, and goodness that on a Global Level, Spiritual Diplomacy is really something to reach for in our eventual work with the Father, Michael, and our entire Universal Administration as we aspire to Light and Life.

Anyway... just a few thoughts about this wonderful, enticing, and fascinating thread

I would like to write more on this but I have to get to a Cardiology appointment..... not looking forward to it either...........LarryG    May we all feel empowered, encouraged, and inspired to  be at one with all that is happening on Nystoria....I pray it be so.......


overmind

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Re: Believe It or Not - see message inside
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2018, 12:08:38 AM »
I never considered the Melchizedek technique to be teleportation because the humans (or targets) still have to be moved via seraphic transport. It's there in your quote. The book seems to indicate that while the bodies are altered at the molecular state, they are not actually moved in space during that process. Immediately changing the location of the new body seems problematic for the soul that would get left behind.

When it comes to time travel, I am not dismissing the idea that midwayers and spirit beings can somehow reach back a few hours in their environment, but that is far different from going back to see Lincoln in the flesh, and what they are able to alter in the world is likely limited in scope. Also, for those in astral travel, time seems a little more malleable. The future and past blur together a little with the present, which is why I see it as a moving band of activity instead of a single point. It probably doesn't help that our senses alter our sense of what the present actually is. There was an interesting study a few years back (which I can only paraphrase at best). Doctors stimulated a section of the brain that was associated with the arms. After a brief pause, the person felt as if their arm was poked or manipulated in some way. The feeling should have been immediate, but it was not. Meanwhile, directly stimulating the arm created an immediate reaction even though the signal had to travel up to the brain. The conclusion was that the brain was somehow receiving the nerve signal and then sending its reaction to it back in time to make the process feel instantaneous. I think it has something to do with how the mind operates through Mother Spirit, but it was interesting nonetheless.
I wanted to sail, so the universe built me a galleon.

Ron Besser

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Re: Believe It or Not - see message inside
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2018, 11:03:53 AM »
Overmind and all -
I see nothing wrong in what you say but there is a personal difference in how we look at this subject on transitional philosophy.  I happen to view that the process of teleportation embraces several ways of doing it  PLUS it is personal in variation on some levels of choice about how to enter and make it work.  It is not a straight forward proposition to enter into it but full of conviction it can be done and then to personally arrange for it to go off like some rocket to travel with.

MICHAEL OF NEBADON -
"Ron you are correct.  Overmind sees things mathematically while you have learned that Spirit prefers to enter into the rectitude of technique you would call science in different ways and approaches.  Overmind stubs his toe on the fact that there is space involved.  NO SPACE is involved at all!  Space techniques are different than molecular techniques and space work is entirely different from molecules and how they behave.   Father notes that you do not bother flying around at all anymore and need rest so badly you can not fathom what you would learn by reentering the ideas of OBE (out of body experience), and there is a great deal to learn but you have opted to stay put to keep your own body mechanism grounded since you experience so much pain.

"What Overmind fails to understand is that teleportation has FIVE versions and a person may use  one or several of these versions at one time to use teleportation.

"Harry Loose used all five versions at once and was such a marvelous traveler he was remanded into custody twice to keep him from entering restricted areas of information he just plain wanted to understand and use for his trips abroad and in the United States.  Dr. Sadler saw to it that Harry Loose got promoted on high based on his singular ability to travel anytime he wanted to and that is an unusual and grateful version of it.  But such travel is not molecular mostly.  The Melchizedek machines are molecular and do not use space ever and that is entirely safe for humans to be moved en masse to other locations other than their home planets.  I give you Dr. Sadler:"

DR WILLIAM S. SADLER SPEAKS TO THE WINDY RON FIRST:
"lI love these dissertations Ron because you are the one who looks at them and says I see a difference in philosophy and not disagreement with Overmind in stating approximate facts.  You are to be congratulated to see that as you see his logic solid and very well stated.  Where Overmind and you really disagree is he sees the entire matter as pedantic and you see it as miraculous and the difference will always seal you two apart in thought until both of you modify your personal views as to how God works without being bothered by human logic or Spiritual abscess where he has to show you how things do not get done at all.

"Now, I am Dr. Sadler.  I was moved from my death bed to the mansion worlds by Adjuster transit.  You will be too Ron as we both experience a high degree of success in understanding revelatory exporations, and we both enjoy the idea of God enjoying the way we do our work together and apart from each other wherever we are.  That means space does not enter in to the picture Overmind, as Ron works with all of us in sleep regardless of how tired he is right now.   I also sense you are fighting a draw bridge Ron - what is it? [Ron: vaguely felt Dr. Sadler - I am not sure it is anything at all.]  You are feeling the Supreme pressing you to get on with another point you are aware of and that is that Overmind misses the point entirely in some ways - you take it on now. . . ."

Ron here again.  I take exception to only one thing Overmind, and that you did not directly state it, you imply that you give considerable credence to the scientific idea that the brain is responsible to produce almost all or nearly all the phenomenon that Spirit actual provides and does.  The brain is a sensational machine given at birth, but it is already prewired for certain abilities-- for example: transmission work you used to do well.  That is not an estrangement to science for Ron has it down pat how it works factually, but you view it as a false positive and will never allow minds to affect your mind if you can help it for that reason alone.  Hence you fight this work as though it was a surreptitious allowance into tales and fables you rather not touch ever again.   Your Adjuster speaks:

THOUGHT ADJUSTER OVERMIND -
"I agree with Ron completely Overmind, but you are in charge of the present situation only.  You take for granted that Ron is a fluid machine of thought and he does turn the tide of thought skyward in order to either pretend he knows something or he does know something, but he never quiets down to make much sense to you in statements you just do not believe.  Ron also does not care you do that and is satisfied to give you your due.  In any case Overmind I work hard to keep you of trouble regarding all the things you want to know but are so ham fisted you miss the way in completely over your damn need to be pleased with gaming you insist on is better for you than transmission work.  I see you working with Ron quite well when you are so perplexed by complicated situations he already knows exist but you discover for the first time, but his explanations insult your intelligence you say and you drop out to avoid snarling at him over such issues.  I am your Thought Adjuster and I can clear most of the angst between you two, but Ron is a grand religionist and your Overmind attempt to be the grand scientist.  He is better at it in the grand style than you are in the grand style mentioned, but neither of you appreciates the other for having good and original ideas to work with.  Ron gives you full credit for marvelous logical work as he can be that logical too, but allows God to enter the picture too as the will of God holds many wonders to make scientific discovery fit quite well with the world of swallows and tad poles you prefer to have all the time.

"I have seen you graciously accept Ron on several fronts as he does for you all the time.  He happens to value your cold water wash over his head if he gets too far afield, yet you hold him below you in the telling of information you cannot really get a hold of.  This is one area you utterly fail to understand what Ron takes for granted, and that is the brain is but a bus station with incoming trials to be this or do that from Spirit.  Science will never understand that until they fully understand what an Ultimaton is, and Ron is way ahead in all of that on Urantia/Nystoria, and makes hay with such discoveries with Rayson any time Rayson is pleased to add a touch or two of things to Ron's knowledge on the subject.  You Overmind do not touch the subject from sheer boredom with the idea and from the delicious idea they do not matter at all.  I am sure you two could discuss the fabric of space with you learning a lot Overmind, but Ron leaves that to Rayson because he is sure he really does not comprehend the Unqualified Absolute at all but enjoys the talks about it very much.  On the other hand you do not dismiss the subject of Ultimatons but hang nothing important to know on it.  Good day."

MICHAEL OF NEBADON SPEAKS TO RON ONLY NOW:
"Ron you take no exception with the mind of Overmind and admire his strong defense of matter as mostly correct in your view too.  Where you differ with him he is dismissive of God, when God fails to fit the science he feels is irrefutable.  I see you smile at that as that is a true sticking point between you and you keep wondering where the better logic Overmind holds goes in moments of his frustration about not understanding a principle between you.  Overmind understands you better than you think, but you give him the day as you do here.  I on the other hand see you as the winner in most cases since he dismisses disagreements with you as your fault and not his fault over points of logic you accept but care nothing about because it does not go far enough.  I talk about these things because the difference between the thought of Ron and Overmind, is what we have to overcome on Urantian/Nystoria.  When we do we will have one world religion.  Do you understand Overmind that your refusal to transmit is your refusal of paganism, and that is how you truly see it.  I rest my case for now."

MOTHER SPIRIT -
"Ron sees your refusals on Spirit as unjustifiable arrogance, and it is.  But we have to overcome that set of attitude on Urantia before we can really have a Mission, Overmind.  You do represent the hard headed belief on Urantia that science knows better than anything else you can do in life because it is always true when facts are verified.  Ron automatically saw you did not agree in facts or studies.  But you place too much emphasis on empirical evidence and assign phenomenon that are appearing to be scientific as a matter of cause.   Ron is quite positive God the Supreme is so active on Urantia right now it will confuse this List to the point they drop back even further because they hold, mostly, the same approach to empiricism you do Overmind.  Ron gets all sorts of kudos up here because he refuses to compromise mind to mechanical theories you love to play with and utterly fail to make much spiritual progress because of it.  Yet you do well in your immediately environment and Ron does not because you diverge so widely in your philosophical views.  I dare say I see Ron smile as he types this and fully agrees with me on this and he started this post by saying so now that I see it fully.  I trust you and he are not at odds on much but in this you are so different in approach, he wins the approvals and you sit still wonder where to look next to get out of Dodge while you can.  Good day."

Ron here - I have known this since we met Overmind.  I do not hold you harshly at all, just short sighted.  You really do try but give up when explanations bump up against the hard rock of your idea of infallibility.  The idea of Pope Science being infallible is as silly as saying a human who holds that position in the Vatican is infallible which of course he knows is not right to say so,  but the victim is not the Pope but the layperson who feels forced to believe some of it.  That is, in a nut shell, what this population earth has to reform and you are among the worst in keeping the secret you half believe me in this.  Hence you are really a wonderful test case to argue things with as you show the contentions of empiricism that is not good enough to see into the real problem on earth, and that is the failure to give credence to God and his superior actions over the logic of time and space.  Thanks all for listening.

END





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Clency

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Re: Believe It or Not - see message inside
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2018, 11:33:09 PM »
Finally, having weighed the pros and cons – spiritual and scientific arguments – about human teleportation which in my view is not totally explored on both sides, eventhough they are of the same coin, however I am more incline to give more credits to the spiritual part of it and not disregard for the best the scientific counterpart. This final anylysis of mine brings me to realize whether, in a far future – in the era of Light and Life – human beings will be able to use this spiritual technology to move from place to place, without physical transportation, in the like of Harry Loose. My imagination is just on full steaming.  ;) Domtia
Oh, Lord ! I am your servant, I am your liege, it is my will to have your will be done, I am yours for eternity.

Dorian

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Re: Believe It or Not - see message inside
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2018, 08:04:01 AM »
This topic has been a very interesting read.  Kind of reminds me of Isaac Asimov's very famous book titled, "Foundation", which deals with a great story whose main concept is teleportation.  According to Wikipedia, "Teleportation is the theoretical transfer of matter or energy from one point to another without traversing the physical space between them."

My contribution to this subject is this:  Upon studying our Urantia Book and how many different modes of travel are available on the Mansion worlds, there is no mention of using teleportation at all that I could discover.  It seems to this pretty used up mind that if it was viable and easy way to move around, that these worlds that have been around for billions of years would be using it and it would have been mentioned.  However, on the other hand, it seems to me that if a being of any kind is incarnated on this planet as in the case of the Melchizadeks that are coming here, that they must arrive by some sort of teleportation.  Just food for thought.

Dorian
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 08:05:55 AM by Dorian »

Ron Besser

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Re: Believe It or Not - see message inside
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2018, 10:33:40 AM »
Dorian, the Urantia Book does mention it as the Melchizedeks use a variety of that concept to move an entire population of a doomed earth off the planet and deposited asleep on their new new home planet.  See my post above as I give you the UB reference saying what those machines do.

Second, Clency:  You choose to sit on the fence.  I do that myself quite often.  But I think Michael makes it clear that those affiliated with the beginning of the Urantia Book could and did teleportation on behalf of the founding of that epochal revelation.  It is not that it is not doable, it is just Urantian is so unexperienced in matters of spiritual possibilities it looks down it nose to such things including people who can transmit the Voice of God, while we are at it. 

Ron

MICHAEL OF NEBADON -
"You Dorian read so poorly you do not get the basics out of a post and you have no idea how you skip these things.  Long posts are never really liked but when I have something to say it takes a lot of words sometimes to get the concept apart from just normal lazy thinking.  Clency tries hard and skips too much too.  Dorian does not even bother sometimes and Ron is completely confused by your interests when you do not bother to study revelation that is offered between epochal revelation.  In the future you will be forced either to study material or just forget trying to comprehend what we do while you are in the flesh on Urantia/Nystoria.  Good day.  Michael."
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Dorian

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Re: Believe It or Not - see message inside
« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2018, 08:01:50 PM »
Ron,
 
First and foremost, you do not know me well enough to call me lazy or stupid.  Not even by pretending it is Michael talking through you.  I am a very intelligent individual who scores pretty high on IQ tests I have taken.  Your insinuation that I don’t know how to read and digest what I have read tells me so much about you.  You, nor your supposed Michael, really read what I wrote and your rebuttal tells me that.
I made the comment that teleportation was not used as a “STANDARD” mode of travel on the Mansion worlds.  I never even implied that there was no such thing as teleportation.  I have probably read more books of every kind in this world than you have ever even seen.  But I digress.
 
I have been a member of this Forum for almost 2 years and in all that time there is not one celestial promise made through you that has come to fruition.  NOT ONE.  I know that Jesus was so upset and hurt when he realized that Judas was about to betray him to his enemies.  Jesus,  knowing in his heart of hearts what was about to soon transpire, only bid him to be on his way and do what he must.  He then told the others that someone would betray him, someone at his own table.  He did not call Judas names nor even mention his name.
 
This is the same Jesus that is our Michael bestowing himself on earth on our behalf as well as to fulfill his final bestowal.  This Michael that I know would not belittle himself to stoop and call one of his earthly children either stupid or lazy nor state that I would be forced to do anything.
 
Ron, you overstepped your bounds by using celestials to say things that you are afraid to say yourself.  You pretended to be my friend and I even called you my brother and mentor.  In this respect I have to admit I have been a fool. 


Now I know why so many others have left this forum.
 
That is over.  As of today, you can delete me as a member of this forum.  I wish to leave this family of spiritual believers.   Spiritual believers that I still believe in and will always think of as my extended family.  To my many friends, I bid you God’s peace and love.
 
Dorian

Ron Besser

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Re: Believe It or Not - see message inside
« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2018, 10:09:36 PM »
Dorian, I do not think you are or do I call you lazy or stupid.  But you skip lessons. 

It is okay that you wish to find easier pastures as I think you are more comfortable there.  I wish Dorian well and have no regrets that you need and want a change.  Best wishes to your new adventures.
Ron

Located in Historic York, Pennsylvania

niant2

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Re: Believe It or Not - see message inside
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2018, 12:06:26 AM »
 :o  


My dear friend and brother Dorian whom I love with all my heart

What matters most is your relationship with your Thought Adjuster, ..., with the Father !!!!

What others think does not matter!!!!!,


(   My text for Dorian was longer than that, ..., I think I felt the majority of my text for Dorian was censor!!!!   )

« Last Edit: May 27, 2018, 12:13:45 AM by niant2 »

overmind

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Re: Believe It or Not - see message inside
« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2018, 12:53:46 AM »
Ron, I trust the first section of your comment was just about the Melchizedek technique? The thing is, if you want to discuss teleportation, space/location always has to be a factor. Teleportation literally means to be physically transported across space instantly. If you're going to say space is not involved with the Melchizedek technique, then you are basically saying the given subjects aren't moved during the process, meaning it doesn't count as teleportation. I would agree with that. Meanwhile, transporting your consciousness to a new place does not count as teleportation either because you aren't moving matter in the process. Even if you want to argue that a body of matter can be recreated elsewhere and consciousness can be forced into it along with the recreation of mind, that doesn't explain what happens to the soul that is left in the original location. I sense spirit is wise enough to avoid deconstructing the morontial souls we've worked hard building up. If this wasn't the case, it seems it would be far more efficient to just recreate every human that died instead of ferrying them to Mansonia One. But then if you can just build souls like that, including their contents (experiences with survival value), it would seem mortal life is not that valuable. In sci-fi, teleportation basically kills the target and recreates their newly-living vessel, with the philosophical question of whether the transported individual is still the same person. The missing elements are the personality, the soul, and the Adjuster. Teleportation in the physical sense (the definition I have always been using) leaves out those elements in the process (at least when considering how it has been imagined previously). The distinctions between our definitions are important. I also do not include the idea of wormholes as examples because that counts as moving through distorted space, not appearing at a brand new point without movement or the transfer of energy.
I wanted to sail, so the universe built me a galleon.

Chilliwack

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Re: Believe It or Not - see message inside
« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2018, 01:53:30 AM »
Ron, you are succeeding in whittling away at your forum membership to fulfill your statement of 75% to 80% shrinkage over the past few months.


Dorian is a fine person and, as you have done previously, you belittled this gentleman by using Our Beloved Creator Son, Michael, to pass your own twisted message as if it was His!  How dare you commit this blasphemy on the pages of your precious forum!  


This is just more evidence that you have moved well off your charted course, that your pilot is unable to alter the direction you have  chosen to take. I pray that you realize that you are in uncharted waters, come about and find the True Compass that points us Paradiseward. 


Billabong