*Serara Forum*
THE SCIENCES & ORIGINS => SUBJECTS INCLUDING THE ORIGINS OF THE UNIVERSE AND ITEMS TOO NUMEROUS TO MENTION => Topic started by: Ron Besser on August 27, 2022, 12:31:54 pm
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I am Ron Besser, as you all know, and sometimes this individual is allowed to kibitz over issues that are not in the 5th epochal revelation or any epochal revelation in our era of life training inside our Master Universe. Let me review a couple of things with the reader however, before we get to the concept I wish to put before you to ponder.
1 The Shape of Creation
The Master Universe is an elliptical unit. Most of you tend to know that if you read anything the astrophysicists have determined as the shape of the universe. It is elliptical because Father so willed it, but the real mechanism behind its shape is the FATHER decreed that all creation revolve around Paradise in an orderly fashion. In truth this is just another way to say that all creation orbits Paradise. What provides the elliptical shape to the Master Universe is that the gravity on Paradise holds the creation orbit around its shape, an ellipse, and hence we see our own creations in Nebadon take that shape too.
2 The Master Universe is Already Almost Infinite but Divided into 7 (Seven) Rooms with locked doors.
The seven rooms are seven unique space areas one is either born into or personality achieved in it. When we say personality achieved, Deity and the Divine are not "born", they appear as brand new personality when the FATHER says it is time for them to be alive and working to help the Master Universe grow. We are born and go through a materialization of matter that forms our appearance by the rules of procreation and its genetic instructions to make our forms.
The seven different rooms that exist in the Master Universe are seven different styles of appearance of life and how they live, and some of that life appearance is so different from each other, FATHER sequesters those rooms off limits to each of the seven in order to have peace and quiet over so many differences. I am over simplifying it but that is essentially why man cannot take a ticket to Paradise if he could travel there. It is too different and man just has no business getting confused about it yet. There are seven of those difficult rooms and not all of them are occupied at the moment.
3 Even Infinity Has Variation We Dare Not Touch
You hear me talk about hyperinfinity. That is an Infinity style we do not use in our Master Universe. But the Father Infinite, which is how our FATHER evolves to be seen by all as Infinite in the lst stage of building in our Master Universe. is related to hyperinfinity and admist at the outer most edges of our Master Universe, lies a vast concourse we will never see or understand, but it is ancestor to our Master Universe type of Infinity we are. It seems its use, hyperinfinity that is, an answer to pundits who say once the Master Universe is Infinite, all development works ceases, as it really does, but what do we do with ourselves if that happens. Sit and watch TV eternally? Ugh!
No, of course not. Those of us in those far future days that made it through all the universe changes necessary for it to become Infinite, get what I would thinks is a rest period before we face new work, and believe me, it is not explainable, but we can point to it being that the outside surroundings that contain hyperinfinity, is also inhabited by the Consummators of Universe Destiny, and they are not the new FATHER, but FATHER himself is a Consummator of Destiny (number 6 thank you), and He is right a home with such a place and takes his workers with Him. Maybe. No one says. But just know we do not get to stop working even in perfection.
4 Here is a Shocker Concept for YOU!
Remember the ellipse that is the Master Universe creation spoken to first above? The shocker is that the ellipse while being divided into 7 locked rooms for very different life types, is also divided under the floor of all those rooms.
The seven rooms are vertical walls of different reality forms as we said, But somewhere below the depths of the Paradise center to our Master Universe, another line is drown, not vertically, but horizontally right through the ellipse.
Above this dividing line under the floors is a whole new section that has no galaxies in it, no life in it, and no plans for development in it.
It is beneath floor of the universe we all see and love with starts and planets and flying squirrels and even angels and the Deity on Paradise. More than half of the Master Universe is below the horizontal line drawn through the Master Iniverse, and it is not empty, but contains all of the machinery and apparatus necessary to run Infinity and to specialize creation into individual units. Those specialized units of life are ourselves and the angels and the Sons and Daughters of all creation which all live about that horizontal line.
I discovered this through a normal transmission broadcast with a Mighty Messenger who spoke to me about why Ultimatons have to be cooled below that horizontal live o nothing in it.
First remember that Ultimatons arrive in time and space from the Paradise room level, and everyone please not this: when creation is materialized it gets boiling hot. That is what happens for any such creation that comes directly out of Paradise: it boils to the electronic boiling point some 35 million degrees Fahrenheit/
Ultimatons must be placed in a very cold place and lay there until the boiling is over. For that reason the SUPERUNIVERSE galaxies, must be kept above where electronic boiling is taking place, and so even the sSuperuniverses float, must float, above this line. IT is a top secret and I guess I accidentally found it when talking about Ultimatons and how they must be cooled down and then float about that line to become the materializing influence of all matter so it can be seen and lived on and eaten and form bodies like ours.
Talk to yourselves about this and learn it is real and is beyond imagination even. The cellar of the Master Universe is even bigger than the visible creation level, and what that might tell you about the future? Honestly I do not guess at it because how would the FATHER explain rusty creations no longer used in the basement? They say there are already a few there and FATHER refuses to discuss it further.
I hope you enjoyed the trip!
Ron Besser
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Dear Ron. Here is my view on the structure of the universe.
Imagine a child's Volchek.
In fact, this is the same gyroscope.
The axis is Paradise.
Havona is a disk, a horizontal line.
Above the black bodies in the horizontal plane are seven super-universes. And so on the next levels.
And the same should be below the horizontal line to maintain balance.
But in what form they are, we do not know. One thing is clear, they are also in the horizontal plane like the superuniverses. The universe is symmetrical with respect to Paradise.
From Paradise, the universe spreads in the form of a cone in both directions.
Different levels rotate in different directions, like in a gyroscope, and this makes the universe extremely stable.
Sincerely,
Prozonov
Дорогой Рон. Вот мой взглÑд на уÑтройÑтво мирозданиÑ.
ПредÑтавьте Ñебе детÑкий Волчек.
По Ñути дела Ñто тот же гироÑкоп.
ОÑÑŒ – Ñто Рай.
Хавона – диÑк, Ð³Ð¾Ñ€Ð¸Ð·Ð¾Ð½Ñ‚Ð°Ð»ÑŒÐ½Ð°Ñ Ð»Ð¸Ð½Ð¸Ñ.
Выше за черными телами в горизонтальной плоÑкоÑти Ñемь Ñверх вÑеленных. И так далее идут Ñледующие уровни.
И тоже Ñамое должно быть ниже горизонтальной линии Ð´Ð»Ñ ÑƒÐ´ÐµÑ€Ð¶Ð°Ð½Ð¸Ñ Ñ€Ð°Ð²Ð½Ð¾Ð²ÐµÑиÑ.
Ðо в какой они форме нам не дано знать. ЯÑно одно, они тоже находÑÑ‚ÑÑ Ð² горизонтальной плоÑкоÑти как и ÑверхвÑеленные. Мироздание Ñимметрично по отношению к Раю.
От Ð Ð°Ñ Ð¼Ð¸Ñ€Ð¾Ð·Ð´Ð°Ð½Ð¸Ðµ раÑпроÑтранÑетÑÑ Ð² виде конуÑа в обе Ñтороны.
Разные уровни вращаютÑÑ Ð² разные Ñтороны, как в гироÑкопе и Ñто делает мироздание чрезвычайно уÑтойчивым.
С уважением,
Прозонов
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Very good Prozonov, this is how I see the Grand Universe looking down high above Paradise I see the three Sacred Rings of 21 Gigantic Worlds of the Paradise Trinity.
I see the seven rings of the billion worlds of Havona.
I see a huge gap of dark space.
Then I see the Seven Super Universes, now in time I also see when all Super Universes have evolved into light and life. All the stars in each super galaxy will remove themselves from the hub of the galaxy and form a belt of light around Havona with seven huge orbs of light representing what once was Seven Great Universes surrounding Havona.
I believe this could happen after what is left of the one billion years of expanding which is 500 million years from now then the Universe of Universes begins it's one billion years of inhaling or contracting.
Well that's what I see I'm sure Ron has a better picture. I didn't get a chance to read Ron's post I saw your post and had to put my 2 cents in.
Weydevu
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Thank you for your responses. But unless I miss my guess you do not understand what and were I told you this concept comes from. It is from Paradise and is epochal revelation in small amounts about what is in the shape of the Master Universe.
Weydevu, your look down on to the top of the superuniverses is correct, but where are you looking from? You do not say. Say where you are looking from. Are you aware that directly above Paradise in its so called sky, is a river of new space being rejuvenated to send back out into the Master Universe? Are you in that to see the top of superuniverses?
Prozonov, you are the first one to ever suggest that the out going distribution of space and galaxies are expanding in cone like extensions? Please tell us where you get this idea as it is not entirely wrong, and that is from your Father on Paradise confirming your vision in part.
I remind you both that I am speaking of a floor beneath the material creation that has no galaxies and has not planets or start, but is black empty nothing but Ultimatons cool in it. What do you think Ultimatons cool in if there is no molecular space to dool down under?
Please remember I do not speculate but provide you genuine statements from the Father on these matters directly through a Mighty Messenger unnamed even to me as I keep press credentials to ask and talk with these top officials so long as I do not alwyas name my sources- just like the New York Times sometimes. Thanks to both of you for an intriguing look at space as you might view it.
END
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August 28, 2022. Samara, Russia. Answers to Ron.
Dear Ron. I'll try to answer your questions.
1. As you know, the immovable island of Paradise is a standard, a model according to which the entire universe is created.
2. Rings of Havona revolve around Paradise with great speed, some clockwise, others counterclockwise. This creates stability. The thickness of Havona corresponds to the thickness of Paradise.
3. Space spreads from Paradise at an angle unknown to me, and its change is breath. The angle changes as the galaxies of the superuniverse converge in their vast ellipse or move apart. The same thing happens in the lower part of the fixed island.
4. Since nothing in the universe disappears, but changes, passing from one type of energy to another, it means that it must somehow loop. This is what happens at the bottom of Paradise at the same distances as the Big Universe and other levels.
5. How did I know all this? When I first read the Urantia book, which I printed out in 2005, I immediately became interested in the structure of the entire space. Gathered information, drawings, diagrams, your revelations about the size of Paradise. But I saw the final picture in front of me after reading your post.
6. I think that ultimatons cool down when they leave the space under Paradise. Alone or as part of another kind of matter or energy, which is essentially the same matter: physical, morontia or spiritual.
7. Under Paradise there is an endless "cauldron" in which our past, present and future are "boiled". It is fueled by burned worlds and galaxies, lost souls, and resurrected and destroyed spiritual beings.
That's probably all
Sincerely, Prozonov
Comment.
The translator may not accurately translate some of the wording and distort the original.
28 авгуÑта 2022. Самара, РоÑÑиÑ. Ответы Рону.
Дорогой Рон. Попробую ответить на ваши вопроÑÑ‹.
1. Как извеÑтно¸ неподвижный оÑтров Рай Ñто Ñталон, образец по которому ÑоздаетÑÑ Ð²Ñе мироздание.
2. Кольца Хавоны Ñ Ð¾Ð³Ñ€Ð¾Ð¼Ð½Ð¾Ð¹ ÑкороÑтью вращаютÑÑ Ð²Ð¾ÐºÑ€ÑƒÐ³ Ð Ð°Ñ Ð¾Ð´Ð½Ð¸ по чаÑовой Ñтрелке, другие против. Ðто Ñоздает уÑтойчивоÑÑ‚ÑŒ. Толщина Хавоны ÑоответÑтвует толщине РаÑ.
3. ПроÑтранÑтво раÑпроÑтранÑетÑÑ Ð¾Ñ‚ Ð Ð°Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð´ неизвеÑтным мне углом, а его изменение и еÑÑ‚ÑŒ дыхание. Угол изменÑетÑÑ â€“ галактики ÑверхвÑеленной ÑближаютÑÑ Ð² Ñвоем огромном ÑллипÑе или разбегаютÑÑ. Тоже Ñамое проиÑходит и в нижней чаÑти неподвижного оÑтрова.
4. Так как во вÑеленной ничего не пропадает, а видоизменÑетÑÑ, Ð¿ÐµÑ€ÐµÑ…Ð¾Ð´Ñ Ð¾Ñ‚ одного вида Ñнергии в другой, значит оно должно каким то образом закольцовыватьÑÑ. Ðто и проиÑходи внизу Ð Ð°Ñ Ð½Ð° тех же раÑÑтоÑниÑÑ… как Ð‘Ð¾Ð»ÑŒÑˆÐ°Ñ Ð²ÑÐµÐ»ÐµÐ½Ð½Ð°Ñ Ð¸ другие уровни.
5. Откуда вÑе Ñто Ñ ÑƒÐ·Ð½Ð°Ð»? Когда Ñ Ð²Ð¿ÐµÑ€Ð²Ñ‹Ðµ прочитал книгу Урантии, которую в 2005 году раÑпечатал на принтере, то Ñразу заинтереÑовалÑÑ Ñтроением вÑего проÑтранÑтва. Собирал информацию, риÑунки, Ñхемы, ваши Ð¾Ñ‚ÐºÑ€Ð¾Ð²ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð¾ размерах РаÑ. Ðо окончательную картину увидел перед Ñобой поÑле Ð¿Ñ€Ð¾Ñ‡Ñ‚ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð²Ð°ÑˆÐµÐ³Ð¾ поÑта.
6. Думаю, что ультиматоны оÑтывают тогда, когда покидают проÑтранÑтво под Раем. Ð’ одиночку или в ÑоÑтаве другого вида материи или Ñнергии, ÐºÐ¾Ñ‚Ð¾Ñ€Ð°Ñ Ð¿Ð¾ Ñути та же материÑ: физичеÑкаÑ, Ð¼Ð¾Ñ€Ð¾Ð½Ñ‚Ð¸Ð¹Ð½Ð°Ñ Ð¸Ð»Ð¸ духовнаÑ.
7. Под Раем находитÑÑ Ð±ÐµÑконечный «котел», в котором «варитÑÑ» наше прошлое, наÑтоÑщее и будущее. Он подпитываетÑÑ Ñгоревшими мирами и галактиками, потерÑнными душами и воÑÑтавшими и уничтоженными духовными ÑущеÑтвами.
Вот, пожалуй и вÑе
С уважением, Прозонов
Замечание.
Переводчик может не точно перевеÑти некоторые формулировки и иÑказить оригинал.
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This is great revelation Ron, it really is something we didnt expect yet, thank for delivering.
Rene
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Hi weydevu, can you specify where you found this :
„All the stars in each super galaxy will remove themselves from the hub of the galaxy and form a belt of light around Havona with seven huge orbs of light representing what once was Seven Great Universes surrounding Havona.â€
It would not be wrong to use the school language of geometry. Currently, the Master Universe is shaped like a bird's egg (three-dimensional, spatial, having volume). Such a shape is called an ellipsoid, not an ellipse. An ellipse is a two-dimensional shape, on a plane, and has no volume. All partial universes belonging to the Master Universe are arranged around a plane, not a line. A line has only one dimension, only single points, along the line, one next to the other.
We're told that the Master Universe breathes, by which we mean that its ellipse lengthens and then shortens. I wonder if this ellipse reaches a flattened shape, like the cross-section of the earth through the center. The earth is a flattened ellipsoid, while a bird's egg is an elongated one.
If the respiration cycle is one billion years, it is very short compared to the time of the Superuniverse evolution so far, which is about 1,500 billion years, so the time to achieve Light and Life given by weydevu would be very short if it is related to the current respiration cycle of the Master Universe.
Interesting news we received recently that :
Master Universe's ellipsoid has a shell, like a bird's egg, but I don't remember what it is made of. It forms the security boundary of the Master Universe. Outside it is Hyperinfinity, in which all the Consummator of Universe Destiny have created themselves and normally reside there.
This shell is not closed, probably at one end of an elongated ellipsoid. I don't think we have information, why this is so.
I wonder if the shell also changes shape when Master Universe breathes.
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Thank you Andre for the question, I do remember reading that the Seven Super Universes would become one in time. However
remember I said this is what I see. I searched TUB in different papers but I couldn't find what I was looking for.
Concerning the seven orbs of light, it's how I saw it. I thought it would make a beautiful picture besides each orb represents the central government of it's central creation and the Seven Master Spirits would still be functional. But remember Light & Life has never been established in a Grand Universe before so it was my speculation.
I hope that help. Now if you are reading this Ron could you shed some light on this and thank you for giving me a clearer picture of the Master Universe, I forgot about the shoreline that surrounds the Master Universe also.
Weydevu
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Here is the approximate ellipsoid shape of the Master Universe with its axis drawn in as the x, y, and z coordinates, I use to orient myself when talking about the Master Universe and what it dimensionally imposes on our imaginations.
(http://app.box.com/shared/static/k2r4ejjyn6f5u4rch4qcozugpx2um0dx.jpg)
The Z axis is also the exact location of the Paradise System, but the object Paradise sits below the Z surface by about 100 million light years as we measure things.
The X axis is cut through by the bottom of the Paradise System slightly and only slightly. The X axis is just slightly above the floor of matter filled space. Below the horizontal floor of matter is the "cellar" of the Master Universe and it has no space, and no matter, and lots of the material called ABSOLUTA filling parts of it - - - Absoluta and Segregata as well; both are non dimensional and seal anything it touches sealing the bottom of the ellipsoid shown in dark blue here. The X direction is already nearly Infinite.
The Y axis is not dimensional but indicates width dimensions of the Master Universe. I have no revelation concerning this dimensional measurement except to say Y is already nearly Infinite.
The three coordinates x, y, and z, determined the physical aspects of the Master Universe. They do not determine the spiritual aspects of the Master Universe. The spirit dimensions of the Master Universe are several times the size of the picture I show you above and IS NOT influential to determine the physical dimensions of the x, y, and z coordinate definitions. However, the spiritual dimensions of the Master Universe are fully examined on Uversa as spiral and obligate (i.e., pulled out to flatted the spiral windings of the spiritual influence. Picture a balloon being pulled from it top and air stem to flatten it a little).
I have a lot more to say on all of this but let this sink in and to use as our common reference page as to shape and how to talk about the x, y, and z dimensions and approaches to the interior view of the Master Universe. Try drawing your concept and posting it with your comments. Pictures help so much when something as complicated as these mathematical versions can be.
Many thanks for your continuing views.
Ron
MICHAEL OF NEBADON - "Ron appreciates your mind picture views but attempt to place those views in a picture of some sort and upload to the text in your reply. I would like to see that myself. MICHAEL OF NEBADON."
END
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I think weydevu sufficiently described his vision in answer 2 above. This is probably new to existing knowledge.
Ron's description of the shape of the Master Universe as an ellipse is probably correct, because it is relatively flat inside a shell ellipsoid made of absolutum. Something to do with this ellipsoid probably has the angle quite vaguely mentioned in point 3 of prozonov's answer 4. Perhaps it would be possible to say something more precisely about this angle.
Thanks to Ron for a lot of new information and for briefly recalling some known before, because the topic is extensive and even finding and reviewing existing documents takes a lot of time. So we look forward to the continuation.
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Hi Ron, not sure if you have given us the information before, but how big is the master universe again including the outer space levels? Can you give me the dimensions again?
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I have heard a giant number before, but I was cautioned, and so are you, numbers are meaningless to express as volume when the extent of the Master Universe is nearly Infinite. They have given us an idea of the time-space zone dimensions, and that is the zone that extends just outside of Havona to OSL1. They tell me its width is approximately 45 (forty-five) trillion light years across and an orbit dimension around Paradise depth of approximately 61 (sixty-one) thousand million light years.
There is a problem in stating these numbers because the depth of time and space measured from the space cape above Paradise as its limit of appearance to the X coordinate in that drawing, varies considerably. Superuniverse 4 (four) sits almost directly under superuniverse 5 (five) which is terrible confusing, but superuniverse four (4) is so much larger than 5 and 6 put together! For that reason the Master Force Organizers elected to respond to the Paradise call to reform the counterclockwise orbit of superuniverses not but to superimpose the superuniverses enough so as not to interfere with even spacing of orbiting superuniverses around Paradise themselves. Even more difficult is the fact that our Superuniverse 7 (seven) is naturally the youngest of the superuniverse creations, but it is older than superuniverse five (5). They do not say why, but (5) sits just partially beneath three (3), and to the human mind these galaxy numbers then are slightly out of chronology.
The Urantia Book does not bother to speak to these irregularities but it does not even suggest there is a matter floor either so to keep the revelation relatively intact for the minds of that day. Today the mind of man can easily imagine these irregularities and understand that age determines the numbers of chronological order of these constructions. The Urantia Foundation Paradise System drawings are so far off they merely represent human mind order and not the actual concept of how the superuniverses are placed in orbit around the Paradise System of gravity and intellectual control.
Therefore, Dacandyman, one cannot say there is an even depth of time and space like an even cyclendar picture like on a graphic of top and bottom, but it is more toothed in various degrees if depth of the time space depth and they have given us that average in the above figure to provide you some diea of the depth at about 61 thousand million light years.
The Urantia Book approximates the OSL1 as a number of times the size of time and space level and by the time you are at OSL4, it is an astronomical sector one could probably fit several sectors into such as OSL3 might include the size of time and space, all of OSL1 and a part of OSL2. Numbers become meaningless to speak to volume, especially when you must understand that OSL2 does not have all of its space yet. How do you measure volume without space? And then no space in OSL 3/4 and only a promise of OSL5 exists at all at this point.
That is why the revelators refer to the existing Master Universe already infinity but character at this point. And yes, you do remember correctly. Once upon a time they gave me a volume number with warnings too but that is not repeated to me now. Hope this helps a little.
Ron
MICHAEL OF NEBADON - "Dacandyman, you let this slip too and that is your wish to understand dimensions is typical of a lost feeling of certitude that the Master Universe exists as a conscript of revelation only but has no meaning to the human who is such a tiny dot on a little world of time. Ron never has that problem because he never figures time and space as a conscription of anything but a reality.. Talk about reality and Ron knows it is real, and has no feeling for dimension or ever really cares about dimension. He has often said to you, eat and not be so merry, but you insist on it anyhow, and for that reason dimension- that is, room size-- is your forte in imagination, but try to look at the dimensions of reality as a state of consciousness and you will find you can define the time-space areas to be so circumscribed it is an island reality and not really muc of a space level. K"
GABRIEL - "I wish to add this to what Ron says about the jagged bottom to the depth of time and space to really indemnify how a mind like Ron sees these things. We reveal to him pictures of what it looks like and he turns it into words. IT is an amazing way to work as he can look inside his mind and see what we are talking about. People cannot write this way on Urantia except he can after practicing with it all his life and he actually won a proof of concept card to do that if he takes his time to conjur pictures up. Mind is a major contributor in how to approach reality Dacandyman, and for that reason you ply it too much with things that harm its ability and get nothing in return to participate anymore in transmissions. Learn to curb your appetite for the intake of stimulants and aphrodisiacs and you will do so much better with mind for yourself. I am GABRIEL and to you Ron: shut this down while we have control . . . . . K"
Ron - Yes, and to all of you the cabal is all around me but transmissions to me are allowed in a time frame and then they feel they have the right to interfere and I quite before that arrives now. Thanks for the question and best wishes Dacandyman. R
END
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When I read that: "Try to look at the dimensions of reality as a state of consciousness", I remembered a statement by Sai Baba that says: "I come from far away, from a time where the past and the future do not exist, from a space where the dimensions are not related to the external environment but to the internal experience. Actually there, which is not a place but a state of being, everything is internal, everything is spiritual". In other words, impossible for the finite mind to configure. And referring back to First Source's messages, in its Central Message it says: "I live for you to discover Me, that is the highest expression of my love for you, and as you seek my shadows in the layers of your world, I, the infinite, indelible light, grow more visible. Imagine the most distant point that in space, behind a black portal, cast into some distant galaxy, now multiply that distance by the highest numerical value you know, congratulations, you have measured an atom of my body".
Just to express my helplessness to conceive of these spiritual dimensions. As much effort as Ron asks to try to understand and conceive these explanations, I always prefer not to burn my already overwhelmed neurons. Thanks
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Occerpa, what a wonderful post I truly like very much as you accept the attempt but like it not to understand that what we understand is fail-safe love of the FATHER, but no way possible to hear him better than to believe in the light. Then you say you rather not burn your neurons of self revelation on this ridiculous postulate that neither your or I dare or cannot really know the fusion of love with space and time as just a place to move on.
What a lovely cranky way to indicate something like saying, "look if you are going to keep telling me I am so terrible at this, get off my case and let God be wonderful without me really understanding how. " Your post actually makes me smile and there are times like right now, I wonder how to accept being a dwarf intellect and spirit lover is working to cheer me up ever? That is unless I just give in and droll in my cup of life. You have a point and it amuses me.
Finally this as MICHAEL OF NEBADON pouts over us: "You two ought to live in a marsh in Bangladesh to see real poverty and hopelessness. You are not giving me any sense of fun Ron this morning as you are fully disgusted with the world and Me and the rest of the crew over total annihilation of your plans to work well for some objective effort to improve Urantia out of its own worst scenarios. Well you have already done that to some extent and I am not a dwarf do you hear me?! I laugh because you do, and Occerpa is saying not much more than you state, but he is also pontificating your view that more is knowable than he allows. You have always said man gets rid of his responsibility to know God better by saying God is an imponderable mystery and we must let it alone. You say bullshit! And it is, but also remember to run a Master Universe requires some doing on levels you cannot achieve as in my case too, without giving up the idea of information too strong to take at the moment. I wonder how you feel about someone who has you pegged too well and fails to achieve any further information other than you are too far out to listen to anymore? You are aware of many like that and say to them you are useless and go away to your own views. I cannot be your companion when you shut my interests totally out by being so lazy you make no sense to me or anyone elxe in the knowledge department.
"Except for you Occerpa, Ron knows in truth what you are really saying is "allow me to catch up some day, andI will be just fine too." He fully agrees with that view as tolerable and necessary for himself too. I laugh at both of you tussel with heartless people around both of you trying to avoid your ways but never able to fathom why they get the back of your hand as too little to care about. I am MICHAL OF NEBADON, and leave this alone too as you are both giants of thought in a mud puddle of careless life so poorly done it fails eer to get our full attention. So far both of you do have our full attention sleeping beauties! Good day! END
And another
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My late response is due to an emergency. I read the post but lacked time to reply and now I would like to add my two cents to it.
Ron, I believe that you are right in all, and I found some proof for it as I came across an article that claims Smithsonian Insider – Astronomers unveil the most complete 3-D map of the local universe | Smithsonian Insider (https://insider.si.edu/2011/05/astronomers-unveil-the-most-complete-3-d-map-of-the-local-universe/). This image shows the exact same shape of the local universe as you draw. Like Father like Son, Creator Sons are trained in Paradise how to create and that explains it. With all due respect we should all ask Michael of Nebadon for confirmation, but he already confirmed it.
What shocking to me is if there would need to have some real equipment to run the universe. I would add I wonder if the lower part may be where dead spirits are gone? I remember that a spirit being that was executed back in 1986 adjudication of the rebellion was called out of his stupor to talk with us during one of the Lightline about two years ago. (Only the temperature does not match for hell if the lower half is extremely cold. This would be joke, but not really.) Just recently an ascending human – I think he was Martin Luther -, yeah, he is speaking of Jesus: “Let there not be anyone in heaven or on earth who wishes him dead. For if you do you too die. His is the life everlasting. Yours is your life and devastation. Good day to the evil ones. Goodbye to Lucifer. Forevermore may we always strike the balance between good and a little evil. That just happened. But for goodness sake, learn to love and be loved.†I think we better leave it alone if Father refuse to talk about it. We have millions of years ahead to learn new things we do not know. This should not be our focus now. I still do not understand what do you mean by having equipment there?
Prozonov and Weydevu I am sure you have at some point of time in the past came across the theory you portray and accepted it. It happens to all of us on various occasions and once it becomes faith, we stop questioning it. For instance, after I accepted the bible as the primary source of truth, I had to oppress my reasoning ability to adhere to the faith. One such cry of my heart was to Father that creation could not happen the way it is written in those few verses of Genesis. He immediately responded with leading me to the Urantia book. Those who did not question him believe it to be the way. There was a ministry in England that had a weekly radio broadcast to protect creation vs. evolution. He could twist and turn these few verses for hours and masterfully explained away all scientific data to prove his faith. He never stopped to amaze me, truly and I always thought his teaching was a disgrace to Father for chasing unbelievers away from ever wanting to know God. Yet there were other erroneous believes I clang to that did not stand the test of time. One I received correction of one of those errors from Michael of Nebadon thought Ron. It shocked me completely and turned my life right side up. It changed everything I expected; thus, it took me some time and deliberate effort to accept the truth about it. I suggest that you pray and let God reveal it to you too if your faith in the shape of the universe is unfounded and be willing to accept it.
Prozonov, it is obvious that you have formed your theory by accepting it from a source and it is not given to you directly from Father, which is what happens usually to all of us. Thus, you may want to reconsider this. Weydevu, you speak like you would have received this revelation in form of a vision, but sorry to say, it is just not true based on the images revealed by space telescopes and the above article about parts of the universe. If all the parts of the universe dynamically turning and changing and shaped in globular formations it is mathematically impossible to arrange into layers of flats on the end. This reminds me of the flat earth theory. People well imagined it and collected much evidence (in need of their explanation), but physics shows otherwise. Most importantly, ask Father. He must be our only source. Prayer is needed for interpretation, for only God knows what he wanted to show. We cannot go by the collections of dream interpretations that other people published in books. That would exclude God and put him in a box too, for he would now need to adhere to human believes when giving us dreams and visions. I do not mean to reprimand you, only want to speak the truth, because only the truth will set us free. Of course, what I call truth is relative to my perception, thus I am open for correction too.
Speaking of truth, please observe, see in the spirit, where the Christian faith ended up without enough prayer. The bible is a masterpiece, but not without the Spirit of God. Everyone seems to know the bible inside out, theologians wrote up big libraries using eloquent language, yet many never received the truth about their writings and its forgotten. Not praying over issues is a dangerous approach. It is the wild road Jesus has talked about. So be careful with what you believe. I only saw the universe twice. What I saw was that everyone (presented as very small particles without showing any of their details) was moving towards the center with a steady speed. The center was not exactly on the middle but above mid-point of the entire 3D canvas, which aligns with Ron’s explanation. So, the particles had a forwards and slightly upward movement. I knew in the spirit that they were reaching for and advancing towards Father. I had no concept of Paradise in that vision, everything was united. Then I saw few particles going the opposite direction until they reached outer space and disappeared. This tells us that the rebels have no idea how insignificant they are in comparison to the whole, and their destiny is inevitable unless they repent, for there is no place for them in Paradise. The problem is that reprobate minds – backward minds that they have - are good for nothing, not able to function. Yet even a fool believes that he is wise.
I am not trying to protect Ron either when remind you that he is fused. Rather I want you to think and consider this fact because surely, Father would not allow him to publish some ‘off the chain’ material without warning him if he would be in error. He is not in error and truth does not need a protector either; it only needs to be spoken. Please take a look at these images and short video, for they speak louder than 100,000 words to see that none of the known creation to us support your theories.
50 Images of the Universe from the Hubble Space Telescope | Stacker (https://stacker.com/stories/4072/50-images-universe-hubble-space-telescope)
(231) Seeing The Universe Like We've Never Seen It Before - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jT_Zui1Am8)
It is truly amazing for me to realize that the new NASA's James Webb Space Telescope is observing the universe from hundreds of million light years away. In the above referred 2011 article we read “astronomers unveiled the most complete 3-D map of the local universe (out to a distance of 380 million light-years) ever created. Taking more than 10 years to complete,†I wonder how large is the local universe? I know we were told but I cannot retrieve it.
sonsofGod
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Valerie,
I have the impression that you want to draw us into completely wrong comparisons by saying that you have discovered evidence. You're comparing two similar shapes and two similar terms, yet both represent something completely different.
The images depicting ellipsoids in the aricle you point to at the beginning of your post and the one in Ron's post (Answer #8, above) are two completely different things. One shows our neighborhood discovered by a new flying telescope at a distance of 380 million light years, and the other depicts the Master Universe, where it talks about sizes larger than a few tens of thousands of millions of light years. (More than 100 times larger)
I have the impression that you are also confusing astronomers' loose term "local universe" and the term Local Universe from the Urantia Book, which is a concept from the field of organization of the universe, much broader than time and space, and I don't think we know what shape it has.
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The source of my thoughts is the Father. I don't plagiarize.
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Valerie, your post is rather extraordinary from the perspective of your ability to explain you doubts and your assurances. You do portray what science has so far seen as galactic space shape and to some extent duration. What do I mean "duration." That is a time reference as to the age of light we like to speak of as light years and parsecs I believe, and a parsec, or “parallax second,†is defined as 3.26 light-years. Those units are necessary to orient man minds and have not real meaning to me because they limit the concept of why the universe exists at all. What that map shape discovery has proven is the shape contains an almost unlimited number of space bodies without comprehending it is also a picture of a trillion trillion life planets too, and such a fact never gets correlated in sciences exhalation if now has a shape in mind for creation application as a reality. All I am doing is complaining they are so satisfied with a shape and have no concept whatsoever what they have done is only to show the presence of an elephant too big to measure in feet. But I am glad to say I too am aware of the map you speak of and the revelation received even refers to the ARC OF INFINITY which I observe helps understand how light only seems to be deflected at times from what we call a trued light travel line to its destination. Einstein is not wrong for our purposes, but the real truth I believe is more extraordinary than that and that is because light in an ellipsoid interior is directed not from the point of oirigin of that light, but from the Unqualified Absolute insisting the geometry of light travel is always referencing the Arc of Infinity.
The Arc of Infinity is the imaginary line that separates the interior Infinity of the Master Universe from the proposed hyperinfinity impinging on the ellipsoid itself. It is the spiral curve of our limits as a Master Universe not, but our imaginary line of reference that separates hyperfinity from molecular Infinity at this point of our understanding.
Now you engineers in thinking look at it this way: Any arc of a curved surface has what we call a tangent line. I prefer to view the Arc of Infinity to be in total a spiral curve, and that is a horrible process to deal with in our minds because a spiral curve, unlike a normal curve, has multiple radius points. Then so does the Unqualified Absolute deals with such and UA relates to the geometry by controlling the release of a light beam to travel a true straight line but off a tangent inside the Master Universe curved surface reference. That will cause light at 100 million light years from its source to its absorption to deflect itself about one inch off what we would project as its destination. (1")
This also means that mathematical models of space travel prove the ellipsoid shape of the universe we live in is ellipsoid as they too must calculate the local universe curvature to aim space capsules and probes and even a trip to Mars, very carefully if they expect to arrive on time and place well enough to be successful with the space probe purpose. Yes Valerie it is to my mind a terrible complicated and hard to understand calculation reasoning to shore up why the universe is shaped this way by example of light trajectories appearing to arrive from great distances as somewhat deflected, but that deflection is precise too in that the Unqualified Absolute insists on using light as a source of complaint not but of affirming there are curves to this majesty science has not fully affirmed yet as useful to know.
For all of your minds look at the Arc of Infinity like a bow and the light an arrow. The string on the bow is really a tangent (straight) line drawn between the two ends of the bow. Now place yourself on the middle of that bow string. You can face two ways. One to the back of yourselves to the wood bow (that is the Arc of Infinity) or face forward where the arrow goes, and that is the destiny of where you land on the light target.
You as a light beam on that bow are placed by the Unqualified Absolute with your back precisely on the Qualified Absolutes issue of the precise radius point that is true that runs through the bow line you are sitting on, and your are released as a light beam inside the universe right down that radius line through the bow line you are on. Geometry is very complicated but that is part of the control the Absolutes insist upon for any molecular phenomenon appearing in the Master Universe and how it travels as light only. Other matter materials are controlled by linear gravity, and light only tips its hat to linear gravity by obeying the gravity dips and spirals the light beam has to travel through to the target. I wonder when science will finally relate their math to Master Universe totality of shape? They have not done this at all as of yet. This explanation might get you all to start looking at ellipsoid shapes as a series of regular curves but smoothed out into one ellipsoid shape by forcing the mind to understand no one fully comprehends this even on Paradise below the level of existential Deity. You can see this Valerie quite well but I admit you need a little drawing to help you out and there is none yet to demonstrate this simple idea of light following a radius line through a tangent to the Arc of Infinity.
I post some thing else to ponder in the next window for you too.
Thank you
Ron Besser
MICHAEL OF NEBADON - "I am not letting this pass easily Ron. You are fully correct in what you say above. But remember the UNIVERSAL FATHER is concerned not with light trajectory, but with molecular cohesion. Molecular cohesion allows the eye of man to see a planet, a moon, your friend;s body, and the cat you pet with comfort to you both. Without molecular cohesion the eye to our minds would be blind.
"For that purpose then to all of you, the Arc of Infinity, which is a new term to me from Ron, is fully applicable as stated. It exists and it is real enough to say light does follow the radius point through the tangent line drawn between two points on the curve line. However the Unqualified Absolute is fussy about how light travels as Ron points out, and you as humans see it being deflected in some sort of way, but Alfred Einstein saw light differently until recently and he conjectures Ron is simply correct when it comes to ultimately understanding that supposed deflection from what man says is the straight line (point of origin to point of observation). Ron says the true straight line is on the radius point to that segment of the curve the light source is sitting on. He is absolutely correct, but Plank, the friend of Einstein, says that radius line is derived from inside the Master Universe as the true line of the light arrival point to the Arc of Infinity, and as such can be deflected somewhat by linear gravity power. Both are right, but both miss the fact that the UNIVERSAL FATHER does not care about true straight lines as a radius to travel on hat line, but deflects some light to avoid being seen at all! You as a telescope worker cannot see the Havona outline because FATHER obscures the light emanating from Havona by blocking it and hiding it with huge gravity bodies so dense they absorb all light whatsoever from behind them.
"Ron points out as I write this, however, that light is the spiritual light of the Eternal Son mostly and we cannot see spirit light using the eye of man. True, but there are one billion planets in Havona each the size of the entire size of the Monmatia solar system out to Jupiter each of them. [Ron: look at that fact again just so you do not gloss over it!). For that reason the astrophysicist Max Plank says the theory of the Arc of Infinity is blasphemous not but slowly eeks out its truth in space travel inside the Master Universe truly, and admires a mind that can see that as easily as Ron did inventing that unusual theory of light trajectories in light travel.
"I am MICHAEL OF NEBADON and Plank calls Ron "wacky." I do not. Both Plank and Ron use a mind sequence in their heads you cannot replicate called a sonar blast. They can bombard science and see where they fail to take into account all the data they discover, and that is how Ron came up with this theory about the ARC OF INFINITY. I love the term and it sticks up there too as a true cause to be somewhat modified by more facts than Ron can know right now. I am that CREATOR SON who appreciates the effort it takes to write this stuff down, and I know Ron has another point for Valerie in the next text window. Until then, I bid you ado." MICHAEL OF NEBADON, Thank you. K
See next text window for a completely different subject discussion.
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This text window is an extension of my response given the above window referring to the ARC OF INFINITY.
This text window response is reflecting on you Valerie placing the possibility of disicarnate souls in the non molecular cellar of the Master Universe.
For some reason to state there is a floor line drawn sightly below the X axis coordinate seems to unhinge your thinking, all of you. Well then believe what you want to, as that is the state of our sciences today as well. That area beneath the line of the presence of all galaxies possible is quite real and it requires not imagination to understanding it, but an engineer's mind to comprehend volume unlimited but space conditioned. There is your secret to understanding what lies below the X coordinate as shown on the drawing responses ago above.
However, Valerie, you do not go placing anything where nothing is allowed ever to go whatsoever.
Cleanse your minds that disincarnate souls are dead. They are not, and they get resurrected and a morontial body is placed as them to exercise form and elementary contact with their environment on the mansion worlds.
Worst yet, Valerie, once the ANCIENTS OF DAYS decree life extinction for crimes unspeakable, those incarnated personality entities simply no longer exist, and that goes for high spirit and low spirit whatever they were called in Master Universe personalization of their divinity.
Those lost in the Lucifer rebellion are dead and gone as executed that day I was allowed to witness a little bit of it to show me the court process and the court appearance, not of Lucifer, but of Caligastia (whom I still fear today for the horror he perpetrated). What you are referring to as Deity contacting dead divinity is not for you or me to understand, as it is one of the true revelations given that has no human explanation how the FATHER can dislodge a disincarnate divinity once so proud of itself it failed to understand others had rights too.
What is involved as evidence of FATHER being able to approach us with the idea of gaining intelligence of purpose of Lucifer's deeds, is that FATHER is self organized and self created. Do you know what that really means? No one does Valerie, but that is the way FATHER exists to us, and that has to do probably until we exhaust the meaning of a Master Universe itself.
It is very hard to get at because, first of all, you Valerie are saturated with time space language and meaning to it. Believe me once you leave time, they do not understand what is a beginning or how an end can possibly occur. Yet you refer to that outside view of no beginning and no endings as though you pass a loss of a divinity life as dead. They are dead. HOWEVER: there are constituent parts of who they once were that can be taken apart and stored not as existence but as a past fact. FATHER can reference past fact we cannot, and that is the source of what you think is some of them still existing. They do not exist. The FACT of what they did still does and FATHER can speak to it.
Worse yet, to say that again, you place facts in the cellar of the Master Universe. No Valerie. Not even facts are placed beneath the floor of the galaxies as that is reserved for diagnostic equipment and flavors of Infinity in its own terms and even the COORDINATES OF THE FATHER do not reference this level. Valerie do you remember one of the biggest descriptions of the function of our FATHER ON PARADISE? Do you remember the term CONTROLLER? The existential Controller of the Master Universe reads those controls under the galaxy floor and it is not meant for time life in particular to understand much more than that at least at this point in your and my ascension career dear Valerie. Nuff said.
END
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Until now I have something to comment after the surprising reception that my last post received from Ron and it seems, also from Father Michael of Nebadon, with a short but significant closing, all for having expressed my inability to understand the measures of the dimensions at the level of the Master Universe. Thank you very much Ron and thank you very much Father Michael, for the attention to my publication, but I must say that I declare myself at the stage where my effort to grow on this path of discoveries is focused on being able to make the most of the offers that Sai Baba presented during his life on the planet, one of which says: "Dedicate yourself to Me and obtain power from Me. To the extent that you intensify and accelerate that process of giving and taking, to that same extent, you will be happy and obtain success"; or this other: "Do not seek to be the ones who know the most but those who give the most, then the beauty of divine love will transform your heart into a source of wisdom". However, I am well aware that in our Serara Forum group, we have the high privilege of having the prodigious help of the first being "Homo Spiritualis" of Urantia, our exalted leader Ron Besser, who thanks to Father Michael of Nebadon, Ron represents that indispensable interface phenomenon to make the understanding of new revelations and complex truths more assimilable, especially within the reach of the most qualified members of the Forum or those who have managed to tune in with their Thought Adjuster. I believe that the greatest complexity that prevents human beings from growing satisfactorily in this chaotic world, is the difficulty of transcending the quota of animality with which they are born and overcoming the identification with their body, now free from captivity, being able to act as the soul that is its real nature. By then, with a superior mind, the subphoton realities typical of the spiritual worlds should not represent so much complexity of understanding. I interpret it as transmuting from a 3D consciousness to a multidimensional one: From the formed to the formless. For now Ron, I still consider myself that dwarf you very respectfully mentioned. Thanks
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Thank you, Michael of Nebadon, Ron, Prozonov, and Andre for your responses.
First, I need to apologize to Prozonov if my comment was upsetting. Please know that it has not even crossed my mind that you would plagiarize, nor would say anything to discredit you. In fact, I am always looking forward to read your posts as you may share views and thoughts from a different angle, from a distant land, which I believe is a needed moving part of any discussion. It motivates us to be thinkers before accepting mainstream views due to lack of adequate information. In this case I could not see your points at all, but the only fact is that it is impossible for both theories to coexist. Accordingly, my goal was to encourage searching for the truth in this matter, especially through prayer.
Now I see me wrong for not maintaining a neutral position and ask questions, instead of telling my opinion and ask you to adhere to it. For this I am sorry. I could have done better. My communications skills need some improvement as I tend to get hasty and ‘educational’ without authority. The question really is how much authority we have to criticize or pose to be influencers. The world really ran away with it and it looks like some of us like me got stock on the middle, I don’t know. I am always ready to change the world and always ready to tell what’s wrong. May Father help me into position to utilize this gift given to me. I see it as a gift because most people do not have that. Now I just need to learn to use it the right way. We all have different gifts and I felt you would understand my point.
Furthermore, I found it reasonable to refer to the fact that most of our knowledge derives from teachers who were first assigned to teach us in schools. We have learned basic math in schools from various qualified teachers, for example, and accepted their unified curriculum to be unchangeable knowledge. As we find nothing wrong with learning from accredited sources so as I found nothing wrong that you accepted the theory you shared and encouraged you to think it over. Our quest for knowledge particularly brought us to this forum. We respect each other’s views but eventually will seek to unify our believes as I have intended through my curtailed approach. The only reason I have perceived that your description is coming through such teacher is that you lacked giving any details or explanation. I see burning passion in Ron’s heart who, in spite of poor reception, keeps teaching us knowledge that is often over our capacity to conceive. Yet he is keep pouring out. Considering the shape of the universe I would like to ask Michael of Nebadon and Universal Father to add to this discussion, if they will.
I anticipate the form of the Universe to be characterized by fluent curves (must be curved or it would truly be endless). Now if there is a spiral movement too, I cannot easily comprehend that. I saw the ‘rose of the universe’ constellation swirling in a spiral movement. I hope this clarifies my best intention to confront and hope to spark some debate about this fascinating subject.
Ron in your response you have revealed new thoughts and concepts that for me will take multiple readings to get somewhat hold of, and thus cannot add much value to it now. I have some questions but not ready to ask them yet. I need to meditate over what you wrote about the light’s movement in the Universe. First of all, I do not understand how light can travel millions of light years and still carry the information from the point of its origin, if the light had to bump into trillions of objects along the way. I hope I can relate better in the future for reason of expanding our minds beyond our current limitations.
Having said that, Andre, I understand your valid point, my statement is based on personal views and observations, and by no means serve for proof in a scientific debate. I compared the two different shapes as one being birthed into the other, as part of the whole being in a similar fashion. I think it should be a considerable point that Michael of Nebadon learned how to create from Father in Paradise. Since creation obeys physical laws unless Father decides otherwise, it is reasonable to have the Local Universe shaped similarly to the Gran Universe even if they defer many ways. I know the difference between general or specific and thought that the Local Universe of Nebadon is being mapped on that image but did not point it out because scientist do not know its name. I have seen another map made by the Hubble telescope of a neighboring local universe being shaped in the same ellipsoid form. Again, I would like to ask Michael of Nebadon if that would be the case or not. Thank you in advance, Peace,
sonsofGod