Author Topic: How is Sin Defined on Urantia and What Are They?  (Read 490 times)

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Ron Besser

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How is Sin Defined on Urantia and What Are They?
« on: October 03, 2017, 05:12:11 PM »
October 03, 2017 from Michael of Nebadon -

This is Michael.

Today Ron asked a very important question.  What sin or sins are there that Urantia has so much of?

Let me begin by saying we talk about it all the time yet we do not define them and Ron finally said to me, Michael what are they?  He is right to ask and yet an ass for wondering what they are in the middle of a big thunderstorm over the latest one to hit the United States.

Let me list them first and then a brief word on a couple of them:

1) Blasphemy - the worst on any world in my Local Universe and the sin is rooted in the hatred of people who believe in God and the Christianity that came from the Bestowal Son, Jesus of Nazareth;

2) Interrogatives of thought which result in mass murder of innocent people; you just saw a horrific example a few hours ago in Los Vegas;

3) Your lives are permeated with drugs and scalpels of false medical needs and redressments of the human body until it is not recognizable.  The Father, in particular, sees the use of body decorations of beads and pins and rings as torture to the eye to all of us, and while it is no sin to think of such things, to actually wear them affronts divinity.  Transmitters who will want to wear them will be defrocked unless they get rid of that garbage on the human body and its parts.

4) Your life with Ron is full of animosity when he does the right thing, and while that is not sin, it is error for thinking of the murderer and not the one who rids the place of mistakes that so degrade efforts to know God, there is no peace or assurity left to do it in peace with such offenses;

5) Eat well but save the last vegetable for me and that is what is coming on Urantia as animals are finally led to pasture for their by products and not their meat, as even Ron finds it horrific to slaughter cows and chickens in the tens of millions to feed the Godless and the spiritually dead;

6) Sloth and murder ranks as the highest sin one can perpetuate, and added to the ideals of God without ever thinking by those who commit it that it matters one whit.  I give you some of the worst offenders on earth as unthinking and uncaring government bureaucrats that drain a swamp and leave nothing to eat for millions of creatures and thousands of people to die in Bangladesh and other countries too numerous to mention.

I comment more on item 6 here in order to help the reader understand that few Americans are responsible for this, but the Asian countries of China and India rank high in not thinking through national programs that harm the life and welfare of millions of people who just never think well enough to prevent this from happening.

I have further items but they need so much comment this would become unnecessarily longer than we desires for now, The above is enough to clue you in on the Urantia sin factor many times over.  Thank you Ron for asking a simple question as you are not sure yourself what constitutes sin and we in spirit must always think twice on circumstances before pronouncing something sinful.  Ron also asks one more question, what to God substitutes good intentions into a sinful path?

Answer: To thyself be true Ron and the rest of you, and no one is calling anyone here sinful, but you are given every day to avoid it or find it and most of you never really had it. The experience of having it is not worth the disaster before the judges who find it in the decision to give you everlasting life without it.  Good day.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 08:49:47 PM by Ron Besser »
Located in Historic York, Pennsylvania

gitz

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Re: How is Sin Defined on Urantia and What Are They?
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2017, 06:14:23 PM »
The Urantia Book speaks to the subject of sin.  I'm at work and can't quote form the UB which I always insist on when teaching someone so that I don't blow it,  but as I remember the UB says that sin must be redefined as a Deliberate Disobedience to Deity.  I recall the passage by remembering the three D's, not unlike the fatal use of the pesticide DDT.  If my memory serves, TUB speaks to error, sin, and iniquity.  I'm not with my book but I will reference it later after work and dinner with my twin grandsons (6 years old) and post the reference.  I have thought the DDD definition well applies to we mortals on Urantia.  Thank you Ron for the question and Michael for the list given as it expands the poisonous DDD definition of sin.
Steve

overmind

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Re: How is Sin Defined on Urantia and What Are They?
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2017, 09:09:48 PM »
1660.2) 148:4.3 “Evil is the unconscious or unintended transgression of the divine law, the Father’s will. Evil is likewise the measure of the imperfectness of obedience to the Father’s will.

(1660.3) 148:4.4 “Sin is the conscious, knowing, and deliberate transgression of the divine law, the Father’s will. Sin is the measure of unwillingness to be divinely led and spiritually directed.

(1660.4) 148:4.5 “Iniquity is the willful, determined, and persistent transgression of the divine law, the Father’s will. Iniquity is the measure of the continued rejection of the Father’s loving plan of personality survival and the Sons’ merciful ministry of salvation.

(1660.5) 148:4.6 “By nature, before the rebirth of the spirit, mortal man is subject to inherent evil tendencies, but such natural imperfections of behavior are neither sin nor iniquity. Mortal man is just beginning his long ascent to the perfection of the Father in Paradise. To be imperfect or partial in natural endowment is not sinful. Man is indeed subject to evil, but he is in no sense the child of the evil one unless he has knowingly and deliberately chosen the paths of sin and the life of iniquity. Evil is inherent in the natural order of this world, but sin is an attitude of conscious rebellion which was brought to this world by those who fell from spiritual light into gross darkness.
I wanted to sail, so the universe built me a galleon.

Ron Besser

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Re: How is Sin Defined on Urantia and What Are They?
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2017, 09:38:49 PM »
I notice the replies are all fashioned after the defining of the terms in the Urantia Book, but I was looking for something more than those precise definitions there and hoping one of you might turn the style of those UB definitions into present day life in your town or village.  Does the hairdresser down the street really need fiftenn kinds of shampoo to wash the hair of her clients.  If not, what is the sin in that?  No sin, but the iniquity of standing sixteen hours a day behind a rich woman's hair is not exactly fun, and it certainly isn't error by my own definition, but isn't there something obscene about the picture?  When that hairdresser finally gets to go home to rest, what does she have left of her life after all that all day before?

I suggest we stop defining sin as Biblical entirely.  That we address sin also as the direction not taken that Deity wishes us to take and that we give Deity a nod and then go about ruining a happy life-- not a poor one--  but a life constrained to the point the soul is not experienced enough to be revived for life eternal?  How do the readers feel about that as a sin?  A collective sin?  A personal sin of omission?  Isn't it a sin to remove life by keeping experience from it?  What say you?


Here's Michael:
"I seldom pick clauses with Ron, but he has the hat on right about this one.  Where do you think I spend most of my time in the shop as a Creator Son?  Mostly on Urantia counseling the recent deaths to stand up to the need to reinvent themselves as being born again (they think), and then having nothing to show for a life on Urantia but hair curlers (in this case.)

"Ron inadvertently shot himself in the arm yesterday looking for a way out of the problems of his day and nearly brought the entire matter back for contemplation until of the members inadvertently shot himself for false reporting, and then we all had to spring into action in order to circumscribe that thread so it did not contaminate what else may have been posted there.  I saw him take Rayson to task for writing a bad addendum to a book Ron wishes to do, and Rayson dropped the entire issue on his head and told him to come back later when he was in a better mood.  But Rayson later realized Ron had it right and to stop fooling around with empty nut shells and give him the low down.

"The point is that we all have our problems big and small but cannot seem to precisely define the problem well enough to solve it without going to extremely harsh ways of building ourselves out of it.   Urantia is so moribund I look to people like some of you who do know how talk yourselves out of a bad choice, but most of you do not bother becasue there seems to be no way out of it.  Sin is not a definition so much as a situation and how you solve it is the remediation of sin or the extinction of the human eventually becasue they never figured a way out enough to convince me to pass them on to the Mansion Worlds.

"Ron wrote you above to redefine what is sinful.  That is not necessarily our definition either, but IT IS YOUR DEFINITION that counts.  Is the hairdresser just as guilty of having sinned Biblically that results in her spiritual death just as much as her insistence on making money in the hair saloon 16 hours a day and dying before she meets with me on the Mansion Worlds where I have to put her aside for lack of experience for that soul hardly exists because of what she did all day?  Sin and iniquity can result in spiritual death.  If she is sinless what then caused her spiritual death after she died on Urantia in testate in spirit? I argue what she did is as bad as sin, but technically she did sin.  What is the difference if shed died spiritually anyhow?  Michael of Nebadon.  Thank you."

END
Located in Historic York, Pennsylvania

vargasnunezj (TA Veyoptia)

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Re: How is Sin Defined on Urantia and What Are They?
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2017, 09:46:12 PM »
Dear brother Ron:

In Michael’s  definition of sin, He states in item number 3, in part:

“The Father, in particular, sees the use of body decorations of beads and pins and rings as torture to the eye to all of us, and while it is no sin to think of such things, to actually wear them affronts divinity.”  

Yet in your post of November 25, 2015, in question 12 (INCARNATIONS EXPECTED 2015 and Later), item 6, you stated, and I quote,

“6) All humans on the Magisterial Son’s staff will wear bronze pins of service after one glorious years on staff and they will be embellished with the Stars of Andromeda in a swirl of diamonds showing the constellation as seen from Urantia.”

Dear brother Ron, in Michael’s quote above, the Father sees the use of  pins as an affront to divinity  
yet in your post cited above the Magisterial Son’s staff will wear bronze pins. Could you please clarify this apparent contradiction?

José L. Vargas Núñez

JOSE, THAT i BELIEVE REFERS ONLY TO PIERCED LIPS. TITS OR SCROTUM IN MEN AND WHATEVER WOMEN DO WITH THOSE THING.  IT DOES NOT MEAN NORMAL JEWELRY.  RON
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 10:51:44 PM by Ron Besser »
José L. Vargas Núñez (TA Veyoptia-9-III) (Pre'Msha)

wendy.winter

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Re: How is Sin Defined on Urantia and What Are They?
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2017, 10:13:40 PM »
Decorations to the skin such as body piercings, tattoos, pins etc. 

Dorian

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Re: How is Sin Defined on Urantia and What Are They?
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2017, 10:15:26 PM »
Jose,
I believe what was referred to was pins and rings that people use to pierce their bodies.  Bodies that are the actual temple of God.  The wearing of pins or rings creates no conflict in my thinking.  
Dorian
He Gave To Us His Everything.  Now "All He Asks Of Us Is Love."   Song about Jesus. Lyrics and Vocal by Dorian C. Doyon - Music by Kris Kristofferson   Clicking on the link here will take you to the song.  Domtia
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixLU9SjexHw

Dorian

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Re: How is Sin Defined on Urantia and What Are They?
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2017, 10:16:27 PM »
opps, sorry Wendy I was typing but yours was shorter and faster.  Same, same.
Dorian
He Gave To Us His Everything.  Now "All He Asks Of Us Is Love."   Song about Jesus. Lyrics and Vocal by Dorian C. Doyon - Music by Kris Kristofferson   Clicking on the link here will take you to the song.  Domtia
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixLU9SjexHw

overmind

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Re: How is Sin Defined on Urantia and What Are They?
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2017, 11:30:22 PM »
The third item attempts to list different forms of unnecessary alterations to the human body that spirit might find as a form of self-mutilation. In essence, we force a change on our body that is supposed to be considered a temple since the TA resides in it. We inflict harm, however light, for the sake of self-expression and identity. Personally, I don't really find this to be wrong. I hold the position that people should be allowed to do what they want with their bodies, and there shouldn't be anything immoral about that if no harm comes to others (including emotional harm). Naturally, if spirit finds beauty in the human form, altering that form can distort the beauty that is perceived. However, most spirit beings have trouble seeing our purely physical form anyway, so they wouldn't even notice this sort of thing. I think this is more an issue of ideals because, ideally, it doesn't need to happen. However, things like tattoos and piercings are still only skin deep. As long as we don't rely on such things like we could with any other facet of physical life (replacing spiritual benefits for physical ones), we're fine.
I wanted to sail, so the universe built me a galleon.

Don Crownover

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Re: How is Sin Defined on Urantia and What Are They?
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2017, 12:11:07 AM »
SIN is the act of hearing but not listening to the right thing to do for yourself or towards someone else or even towards any other type of intelligent life.

We all can picture the person standing with a little devil on one shoulder whispering into his ear and a little angle on the other shoulder waiting for response.

This is why we can say that little children are innocent, they have not yet learned to tell the difference between right and wrong, they do not know sin. So sin actually changes in severity as we grow older depending on the self-correction or desire to correct our mistakes as wisdom increases.

No matter your belief, no matter the law... sin is doing wrong when you know and feel inside what is right.

"Go and Sin no More" was an expression used, not to define a particular action but to define a corrective attitude. Then realizing the effective change "your faith has made you well".

Also, what is sin to one person may not be sin to another... that is only on questionable matters pertaining to personal choices that do not really effect anyone else but yourself.

On Urantia it seems that Sin is: Selfish Ecstasy in spite of another
« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 03:27:39 PM by Don Crownover »
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Ron Hammar

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Re: How is Sin Defined on Urantia and What Are They?
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2017, 01:42:34 AM »
It was said “The Father, in particular, sees the use of body decorations of beads and pins and rings as torture to the eye to all of us, and while it is no sin to think of such things, to actually wear them affronts divinity.”  

Why is this?

Could it be that Father in seeing the prudential of us as being a Son of God, what better statement could a person make!

Yet so many today feel so empty, because of the education system that they have been given, they feel that shock is the only way to say something and fall to the pressure of their peers to conform. They can say so much if they only could own their 'Son Ship'.

Like Jesus said so much in doing so little, by just being. 'The emperor Tiberius said of Jesus " If I had that fellow's kingly bearing and gracious manner, I would be a real emperor eh"  

I see the use of body art as a distraction from a persons real beauty.  I have never seen diamonds cause the eyes to sparkle! But love does.

I think the Father sees the core reason as to why such actions are taken and it is like the Isims (any addictions) " You never get enough of what you don't want"

The body arts don't bring Happiness or self worth to oneself.  Spirit does.

Just my thoughts.
Ron


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Re: How is Sin Defined on Urantia and What Are They?
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2017, 12:14:36 PM »
A tattoo, once carved on the skin of human body, remains for a lifetime, it is indelible, it cannot be wiped out and although it is not sinful, for the spirit it is an abhorrence, as if one is spoiling the Temple of God. My own concern, in such a particular instance, is that if ever such a tattooed person, at a turn of his life, comes to embrace Truth, Beauty and Goodness, is he/she disqualified to be of service as transmitter ? By the way, tattoos that are used parsimoniously to enhance the personality, like a flower or a butterfly, well viewed, is pleasant to the eyes, is not it ? It is like wearing a jewel. Domtia
Oh, Lord ! I am your servant, I am your liege, it is my will to have your will be done, I am yours for eternity.

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Re: How is Sin Defined on Urantia and What Are They?
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2017, 01:35:43 PM »
Dear Clency,
I have some information for you regarding Tattoos.   I had thought about getting a tattoo for many years, but my husband always freaked out every time I mentioned it.   So I dropped the subject.   About six months ago, I thought that this was the time to finally get my wish.   Well, my Adjuster suggested that since I was involved in the Forum to check it out first, since there is no going back once it is done.

Ron told me that I should make my own decision.   Then Serara answered me and said : "I am Serara.  We do not like tattoos on anyone and in particular for those who serve "visibly" in the Magisterial Mission.   No one will tell you not to do this."  

I made my decision that I wanted to be available, if I was needed for the Mission, more than I wanted a tattoo.   I am now tattoo-less!

"Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words."  - St. Francis of Assisi

Clency

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Re: How is Sin Defined on Urantia and What Are They?
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2017, 02:36:00 PM »
Thank you Allie for sharing your experience, it is a good example of how to handle this problem and what is the perspective of Celestials about it. It is now clear in my mind that one must keep away from tattoos, be it charmingly benign or artistic, but the human freewill is always taking into account in the final decision. Domtia  
Oh, Lord ! I am your servant, I am your liege, it is my will to have your will be done, I am yours for eternity.

mauricio

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Re: How is Sin Defined on Urantia and What Are They?
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2017, 07:37:34 PM »
In some societies and communities tattoos are bad when looking for work, which is prudent in my opinion.