Author Topic: RESTORATION OF THE CHURCH: THE BIBLE TO TEACH OR THE SECOND RETURN?  (Read 9641 times)

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Online Ron Besser

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CHRISTIANITY AND THE RESTORATION OF THE CHURCH

OR Is It?
THE BIBLE TO TEACH OR THE SECOND RETURN

A Theologian should write this on behalf of the church, but the church has theologians who oppose other theologians, and for that we part company.  For too long has the church relied on the priest and not the layman, the parishioner, the congregation, the ones who sit their church reverence only to remain staying in the pew.

Martin Luther– yes the one who started the segregation of people out of the Mother Catholic Chuch in the 16th century based on the corruption of the Italian Church.  That was in 1517 and he got himself excommunicated eventually when Pope Leo X, was ostracized for standing up for him as that Pope also declared the Indulgences sold by the lower levels of the church were blasphemy too.  But Martin Luther never fully understood how much that Pope supported Luther’s disgust with the layman and his easy out of guilt by buying a forgiveness by the church in those days alone.

This whole thing of morality and the Church and the priest padding their parts to earn unauthorized cash for the pocket, reminds me very much of what the Second Return is going to do to the theologians and the administration of the Mother Church come the Sunday they see Jesus on television advising this world, ‘I’m baaack . . . “

Dear sisters of mine, you who minister so well with motherly love for the church when it gets naughty over their own indulgences;  when do you think you are going to right the wrong of just being a small bell  voice in the arms of the choir they hire to sing His praises?   And then sit out the rest of the ceremonies because you have to cook to feed their faces and miss the grandeur of Jesus officiating at the Altar?  Oh my, Sisters, what will you face for what you think?

First the reappearance of Jesus very soon spells lucid trouble inside your standing ovation for God, but the lack of public understanding that the Priests are ever ready to congratulate you for maternal affairs inside the church, but then fail to understand the soul of the Sororiety, you take no back seat to the majesty of the King of Kings!

The sacraments are now questioned too?  What are the real sacraments and what is merely tradition based on theologians and their interpretation of the says recorded in the Gospels?  Saint Matthew quipped one day as he was writing his apocryphal Gospel, “where did Jesus go, he is gone from me in spirit!  Why do I miss him so and cannot picture Him well in my mind to repeat his teaching to the scribe before me?”

Sisters, your Brothers the Priests and Bishops and so on, have the same problem some of you do, and that is to realize you are so distant from the breath of the vital Jesus, you are without a single good sense just how he might draw his breath, and as he did often, point at everyone’s chest ad proclaim you an idiot.  He did that often enough, but not with the Apostles, but with Roman centurions who always wanted to clear the way for Jesus, and Jesus would roll his eyes, enough to say, “you idiot, I need the crown in my way!  They are the life of God!”

I am pointing though, to a bigger fact.  The Gospels were from the 1st century AD, and Jesus is preparing to greet you dear Sisters and the others too, and it is the 21st Century and Godless.  So sorry to say that.  Jesus already is aware there is no flock per se as he knew a flock in those days of summer in Palestine and Israel and the diocese that lay north of that too.  He must adjust to the ways of man now, and that spells trouble to the church and to man in general, and your hearts are safe.  He loves the ways of the Sisterhood in spite of not officiating as you should do some day too.

That sounds like rude politics, but it is not.  Nor is the Jesus to come to be in robes, but He must adopt current dress and that is a business suit and not clouds in spite of millions believing those fables.  I speak with a little of authority as because I hear the literal voice of Jesus telling me this and telling me that, and even about the family around him in his home with Mary and Joseph, while Joseph lived, and how he had so much sorrow being required to the Herod palace to collect Joseph’s tools to bring home even the day they buried his father very near the home they lived in.  He speaks about the years he grandmother took him on her lap and tole him to stay still while she did a prophecy.  She later became Saint Anne in the liturgy of the Catholic Church which so many people do not know about.  And even worse, that woman lives today to see the Second Return come back on schedule very soon, and laments she cannot be there to worship him and to give him the grace of well being he so desperately needs yet, even though Jesus is a powerful figure in heaven, he is still sure the world hates him too much.

The Bible relates much history, but Jesus this time will bring new facts to the table for you to think over.  How does God rule a planet?  Does God ever establish a Church just for himself?  Does God remember the resurrection or the death on the cross?  Why do the workers in heaven who support the Holy Father call our planet, the world of the cross?  They do, and they mock not us, but the stupidity of driving the Gift of God to man to the grave with holes so burned into his skin they were hardly able to carry Jesus to his tomb.  That is what they remember about us and the Jewish Law that held the Sanhedrin to muster thousands to watch the crucifixion.

That by necessity brings Jesus to great anger! He makes it clear the church will lose the cross as a symbol of Christianity and none too soon as the Father Himself takes profound abhorrence at gleaming crosses on top of steeples and altars and hills, or on the  on the chest of people who wear the cross out out piety.  Jesus will have it removed and what is left of the church at this rate, becomes secondary to the Father’s Temple.

The piety of the Psalms will remain forever as Jesus stil lenjoys their splendor to God.  So do I for what it matters and who will ever forget the 23rd Psalm when all esle fails?  He still leadeth us by still waters when all else is turmoil.  

Theologians who make a big deal over the Trinity and some even doubt it exists.  What should they do when they learn that it is the Paradise Trinity of the Father, Son, and Spirit, in hold writ, are as ONE GOD, as the I AM and as the FIRST SOURCE AND CENTER WAS ‘ERE THERE WAS A SON OR PARADISE?  The Trinity too has embraced jesus, and He is now the Son of the Trinity and yet bows before His Father as yet we all do in supplication in His name to preserve us.

I must use this language now:

I warn theologians that Jesus is no friend of laws and tenets that form church catechisms.  Catechisms are what the Father’s Temple decrees, not what you suppose, Bishops and Theologians of the Church.  I use the word “warn,” to tell all that when Jesus controls our planet again for religious services to Him and for Him, only the Father’s Temple may stand beside HIm as altar boys and sacrilegious demands for paramony and wine will be dispensed with.  That is the Bible of the Second Return.

Much more can be told to you, but by authority of Jesus Christ, in His name, we pronounce this little talk done for now.  God Bless the poor and the meek as they know not what portends, but they will follow and wait not for you who administer prayer as the business of the Church, and not the ministry of God for all.  Amen.  

END


Located in Historic York, Pennsylvania

Offline SonsofGod

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Re: RESTORATION OF THE CHURCH: THE BIBLE TO TEACH OR THE SECOND RETURN?
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2020, 02:01:39 pm »
What can I say, Ron? After being an idiot atheist for 42 years and fell to pieces before I was willing to consider and seek God for there was nothing left of me, I resisted to go to church for two full years because I really did not like the way Christians behaved. Then I set foot there and began my journey for the following twelve years to learn about God and the Word of God, and saw their hypocrisy and was put out of churches for speaking up, then it happened again, and I left the church to walk with God alone, and back again, because I knew that he wanted to use me to bring more light to them. I was then again persecuted and expelled and finally left out in 2015, for I could not take it anymore. I believe the church really lost it and deserve to loose the Cross that they used for a symbol of every sin under the sun in their congregations and trample the blood of Jesus into the ground all over again.

I want to say I wash my hands in innocence, but of course not one can say that. I tried to speak up and show the example and find no true followers because they love their complacency, laziness, positions, possessions, self-righteousness and sin more then God. They are just as lost as the rest of the world, and I have no excuse that I did not try to press harder. Instead, I was waiting for the appointed time, for the coming of the Lord to open doors for me when my voice of rebuke can be heard and listened to. Who would hear that unless they see the presence of God with me and the power of God through me, I thought. I almost lost myself in the process because I hate what they do and still cannot stand what I see around me and all that is, and I caught myself bitter not better and that is not representing God, so on the end I need to repent. I do not partake in the BBQs and fellowships, mind my own business and some can recognize the light of the Kingdom of God within. 

Jesus is not hated as much as he is demoted by the evil ones to be recognized as an ascended master in a lower ranks instead of who he really is. It will be up to him to address issues that can break the camel’s back, because if he insist to point out unrighteousness as he did, he will face those who refuse to repent, if not, would he stand for holiness and righteousness? The millennial generation is tired of seeing the wickedness of the world and Jesus will find committed followers who want to change the world into a better place, if he does not compromise and we know he will not. I have heard some steep predictions about future politicians and ethic rivals and changing of the guards, and it will be a mess for a while. Christianity in its current form is unsustainable, expect for the few who are faithful and true and paid the price and went out where the need is. When all is done, it will only be sons and daughters of God without religious conflagrations that are expelling each other. This is just my opinion and wait for Jesus to straighten me out and show and tell how he wants to use me.    

Online Ron Besser

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Re: RESTORATION OF THE CHURCH: THE BIBLE TO TEACH OR THE SECOND RETURN?
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2020, 10:34:29 pm »
Valerie, have you forgotten no one will tell you how to be used.  Spirit fairly well insists you step forward with what you can do now, however humble.  Your Youtube work is an excellent reminder to yourself you have stepped forward and need to find a way to revitalize the ideas you have without cringing about bad choices.  We all take them and have them except most of us forget what was wrong and move on with what service we enjoy doing right now.  I know of no other way to chase the mistakes out of the room and to rest in the cools of your own rest area with satisfactions of service as you are doing it  now.  Jesus will not press anyone into service without some initiative on your own, and being a droopy doll will get you nothing Valerie. 
Ron
Located in Historic York, Pennsylvania

Offline SonsofGod

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Re: RESTORATION OF THE CHURCH: THE BIBLE TO TEACH OR THE SECOND RETURN?
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2020, 01:03:57 pm »
I know you are right, Ron, and I do not even know why we got into this wait and see position, but we all do. That was because we all had our share of personal great tribulation to overcome. You are the example for pressing as hard as you can till the last breath, and I did my part too though in a different way, but the results are bleak and nothing came to fruition yet because there is an appointed time it all begins. I am sorry if I sounded angry as I felt when I think of it, for asking what would it take to bring good change when even God's people resist change and reject greater things and turn on each other. We are family where I felt I can went out, but in truth, there is much love in my heart and willingness to serve others if they would just plug in to work together instead of expecting to do it for them forever. Now I am really struggling to decide if I should lay down my life to lead them forward, or just move on and focus on the things I do, publishing, teaching, and so on. Yet I see no change in the right direction without Divine intervention, because most people choose the 'wide road that leads to distraction', these are Jesus' words. Not willfully, rather they do not know it better, have not received the revelation of the kingdom because did not seek it, and believe that this is all that is. Out of this affinity towards life comes all misery, poverty, drugs, and social dislocation. This is one layer of the society I am in contact with when helping the homeless and needy, but we well know that the upper class is so self content that you cannot tell them anything either, especially not when they are better off then you are. They do not want to follow any example of mine, talking about family members, until it taken from them that places them above, or they see us getting good results. Right now, they treat me as one who need to be pitied for my believes. 

Jesus also said, judge yourself so you shall not be judged, but when one puts forward the least effort will not be able to follow this or any advise. Only the great momentum of Divine love energy will move mountains. Here, people gather around the resources and would not move a finger towards a better way, rather settle for less. I kept telling you that I have received what or how God wanted me to utilize my service, but then I was told not to worry about it, things has changed, people died off and we will be reassigned what we should be doing. So again, waiting comes in, and a bit of a confusion, because it is hard to keep up with the winds of change if it does not become the wind under or wings. Celestials acknowledging repeatedly that there was a wait, and I want to pressing into your words to let them come alive to push me through the threshold into a new place and new beginning by self starter efforts. i do a lot but not yet focused to decide that one thing i should be doing. 

I have stepped out on faith more then once to pursue the vision, which I have considered to be the God's purpose for my life in this time and space, but the money was not there to back it up. I am sure that God does not give us a vision without giving us the provision to make it happen, so there comes the reason to wait for the appointed time again.  All I would need to hear is which project to push forward fist, if any that I received, for I have enough plans written for ten lifelines. I cannot wait to regain my independence some way without selling my time out for mammon, which is a time factor, never have enough time to do all that i could. As to my limited understanding and fullhearted commitment to align with the will of the Father I made choices that now disadvantage me greatly, wile waited for the time of restoration, according to the promises given through the word of God and personal prophecy.  One thing is for sure. The time is now and I believe through past experiences that God can stir up the spirit the way that we cannot resist change and receive greater revelations and new horizon to take us to the next level. Father did not call us to walk without Him, He is able and willing and so we are. He will lead me into the next step now that the wait is over.  Wouldn't you agree? I just need to pray more, hear and obey. and we were also told to expect visitations. 
 

Online Ron Besser

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Re: RESTORATION OF THE CHURCH: THE BIBLE TO TEACH OR THE SECOND RETURN?
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2020, 02:34:06 pm »
lerie, you and a billion others keep missing the point.  For some reason when all of these people lose their focus on direction of their life purpose, they inevetiably fall back on their last job and wonder what they did wrong.  They did not do anythingwrong.  What has gotten into your thought system that failure to achieve equals the wrong job to do or to work for.  Not so.

Your entire complaint is based on the idea that you have a lot of life plans and for one reason or other they do not or did not work out well enough to prove to you you were in the right field or doing the right thing for satisfaction purposes.

Yes, the lack of resources is what we all face most of the time.  I have had that all my life and I still do.  I need thousands of dollars a month to operate and without that I have my hands tied.  But I finally got the idea that there is enough moxie in my own creative abilities to approximate great wealth for these projects by simply understanding that I do it myself.  Therefore typos come into play and the wrong formatting gets out, but the fact is I get a lot of satsifaction seeing projects I care about comne to life anyway. 

Valerie you wrok with publication and video and recordings are quite well done.  Why are they now suddenly not the right thing to do?  Your calling is alwasy what you elect to do with your time, not with what you do with your money.

For that reason you have already established a reputation on Youtube and people welcome your input.  Now what you need is a better vision for presentation, yet you lament that you have no resources to do it anymore.  But you do, just find the key to the back door to unlock it and move into the same room the big boys do spending money like a drunken sailor to do it. 

Here are a very serious few rules spirit operates with and use it to your advantage instead of pouting you lost your rudder.  Hell I am alwasy losing rudders and I learn to doggie paddle when the happens all the time now.  I am too old to not want peache and quiet but peace and quiet deafens the creative juices, so I doggie paddle some more to creat the means and ways to serve God without a lot of money on my own either.


SPIRIT  OPARTATION RULES YOU HAVE TO KNOW TO GET NOTICED BY SPIRIT TO HELP YOU:


1  - DO NOT ASK THEM.  TELL THEM!!!

2  - YOU WANT HELP? WHAT HAVE YOU DONE THERE IN EFFORT TO DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND HELP YOURSELF????  THEY CHECK YOU OUT LIKE THAT FIRST.

3 - STAY  AWAY FORM PARTY POOPERS AND REMEMBER YOU ENTHUSIASM FOR YOUR VISION.  THEY WILL ALWAYS HELP WITH VISIONARY EFFORTS SO LONG AS YOU MEAN WELL!

4 -  DO NOT BLASPHEME GOD EVERYTIME YOU HAVE A FLAT TIRE! That is me because I am alwasy pressed for time and stupid accidents keep getting in the way of me being kjing of what I want to do.  I really fall done on this one, BUT YOU SHALL NOT!  Do as I say and not as I do . . .

5 -  WHERE DO YOU GET OFF SAYING YOU LOVE MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE?  YOU WANT TO HELP PEOPLE REGARDLESS IF THEY ARE SELFISH BASTARDS ANYHOW??  LOVE IS NOT THE ANSWER AND THEY SMILAT AT YOU FOR LOSING YOUR OWN VALENTINES BECAUSE THEY DO NOT APPRECIATE YOU!   Well, welll, wel . . . s[orot sorrows not over hearts that expect far too much in return and they do not help those relationships.  Only you do and can.  God and spirit do not let you down.  The do not even try!

6 -  TURN THE OTHER CHEEK NOT when someone scalds you with viscious behaior.  Two things:  Spirit expect you to not revenge and they will let it be too; and TWO:  keep in mind those who offend this way never get the candy upon resurrectioj.  Only you do after you get a new mouth to put it in.    Jesus did not mean to abandon all dignity being wronged, but just not to pick a fight with womone who has no moral scrupples.

7 -  SPIRIT DISLIKES HAVING TO DO THINGS TWICE.  Next time your forget to place a handgun in the drawer without the safety lock on, any child will click it to see what it does.  Children are not arrested for murder often, and if t hey kill someome with this carlessness on your part, SPIRIT MAKES NO AMENDS BY BRING MON OR DAD BACK. Never twice but luck does play a part with Spirit if they see it coming.

I could list a few more for you and others Valerie, but these are serious operating procedures for spirit.  I will leave it at that for now.

Ron






Located in Historic York, Pennsylvania

Offline SonsofGod

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Re: RESTORATION OF THE CHURCH: THE BIBLE TO TEACH OR THE SECOND RETURN?
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2020, 06:05:45 pm »
Thank you, Ron. I understand, I receive what you say, and will mow over it couple of more times to get it straight and make it part of my experiential knowledge. You know how we can hear things and get enthused and three days later do not remember a thing. By the way, yesterday I listened to a doctor who made a great presentation to support his new brain function product and people get incredible resells with memory and energy. He spoke about inflammation of the brain due to lack of proper nutrients after the body stops producing them. We need that! My memory is like a leaky sock. Yeah, they call it leaky brain syndrome.  

Concerning the hindrances of lack and attacks and bed things happen, I know they are the part of life and I thank God for my tribulation being as it is, for it could be so much worse, but there are times that they totally overtake our lives and it feels I just stagnate or going backwards, and there is no time for that. It took me months to develop proper internet security and backup system after loosing my computer and had to replace it, and other attack that I do not want to detail can get all consuming. I always looked forward to the days when this will stop for being untouchable for the lower spirits, but now with the earth changes hanging over our head we know that is an illusion and it can get even harder to get things done. Yet my perspective changed when I came to understand that the race is for the steadfast and not for the shift. I thought of sudden change, and while it is coming, that does not mean sudden restoration is coming with it.   

To answer your question, nothing is wrong with YouTube, but that was a side-work for the time of waiting, having a heart of a teacher to share what I have learned. The BIG one that I have received from above for sure, for I do not have that kind of imagination, is a huge project that will take many decades to completely develop and because I will not be around unless receive life extension, I heard Spirit saying that my son will finish it or continue in it. I downloaded this vision through many years and perfected it and wrote it in a book, and hid it in my heart. This was the prime reason I stayed with the church to get them involved, I received lots of prophecies and confirmation and then the Lord told me to give the writing to my pastor, but he also said they will persecute me. The church did exactly as He said, and forbid me to pray about it with others, and when I confronted their wrong they put me out, but that did not bother me, because I believed in that project more then life, and nobody could uproot it, or take it from me, or discourage me, or touch it. I contacted some influential people, business people, lawyer, television station to push it forward, for it will change this region forever, and I am sure they would support the vision if seeing it manifest even if they did not believe me. I could walk it out if that is still in the heart of God. The core property is sitting untouchable for almost twenty years now and the city had many plans and news about it, but they cannot touch it either because it belongs to God. He sent me out to pray over it and it is dedicated to Him and sealed. Initially, it would help thousands of people who were displaced from their homes, but survived earth changes, and a prophet saw in a vision convoys of military trucks carrying in the supply. This is what I mean when say that I need direction from Jesus. I cannot start something this all consuming on my own will, when I live for seeing the Father’s will prevail on Urantia. I understand that the Father’s will is to help others and do good, but there are many ways to do that and I am not sure about this anymore since I was told not to worry about it. Another vision that would be the part of it is starting a Kingdom Builder magazine that would not have a drop of world in it, only messages from the Father and news and praise from the people of the kingdom. I created the first issue and fell in love with it, but then I want to serve in the Mission, and need to know if this is my mission or else. No matter what I will put my hands to it will prosper if do not give up, and there are so many options. I know whatever I start to carry to fruition will consume me, so this decision ahead of me is final. I really want God to be my pilot light, that is most important to me, but I do understand exactly what you say, as long as we do what we do in His Spirit for His glory, I would have His blessings. Like I said, I need to pray more, and that is the answer for everything and as you said, stop crying over spilled milk. I do not think I failed though, I just failed to do more while we had time of peace. At the time it seemed the right way, but now I see I could do it better. That is just more maturity.   

I still am looking to read your post I glanced at this morning and now cannot find my way back to it. You said I am your fear, and Jesus called your post magnificent so I have a lot to look forward to.  Peace

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Re: RESTORATION OF THE CHURCH: THE BIBLE TO TEACH OR THE SECOND RETURN?
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2020, 07:48:34 am »
Thank you both, Ron and Valerie, for this discussion, both for the opening and closing parts, both of which are interesting, but not the same topics. This discussion is mostly between you, but the others, as Ron says, not only can learn a lot from it, but by taking your advice, try to get things moving, not just wait and watch. It was worth getting over the special but enjoyable language and typos and spelling mistakes that are arguably unavoidable, especially in longer texts. Forgive me if you find them in the short text of one who speaks poor English.

I already wrote down Ron's seven advices and maybe I'll translate something from the first part of the discussion into Polish.

Thank you once again for all that.

Andre
« Last Edit: September 01, 2020, 07:59:15 am by Andre_P »

Online Ron Besser

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Re: RESTORATION OF THE CHURCH: THE BIBLE TO TEACH OR THE SECOND RETURN?
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2020, 10:55:35 am »
Thanks for your observations, Andre.

The most important question I feel ever asked is to speculate on which mode of the spirit efforts to educate Urantia about spirit and how they work with us, is will the churches listen to Jesus at all when it comes to heir practices?  Will they continue to work from the altar as they have done for millennia even though Jesus corrects them about sin, and about the cross.  Is the church practice so ingrained with its own practices it cannot fathom the need to cahnge to what Jesus asks them to do?  That instruction from Jesus to change things to better practices and liturgy is facing the Orthodox Church and the Vatican to break down walls in their beautiful designs of what they do in the name of Jesus?

To me Andre it is like watching to be train locomotives on the same track one like Jesus approach from the west to the east, and the locamotive of old Christiantity moving out of the east to the west.  There will be a tremednous collission Andre.  Will the second return revelation remove the Christianity train from the track entirely or will they insist on the collission?   In my view, that is how serious and dangerous this is and could be for decades if not longer.

Andre you are a thinking man, what is your speculation, do you think Christian churches follow Jesus this time?  What do you think they will really do and tear down the cross among many other things.

What about the question the churches might settle in themselves?  What about the Euchrist, that taking of wine for blood of Christ as in that fancy argument about  transubstantiation.  For those who hardly care about these things, transubstation is an argument about whether drinking the wine is the actaul body  blood of Jesus.  Before you wrinkle your nose over this,  have any of you pledgd eternal love and friencship with each other bu nicking your fingers and then pressing the finger of your friend and love to their finger bleeding too to mix the blood of assured and eteranl regard for each other.  In the kids of the 40's and 50's if  the friendship was intense we pledge often to each other by signing our brotherhood to each other with a blood blending at the top of one finger with the other.

If you are grown up in early Christiantiy, you swore to your brother and sister with a drop of blood and the chruch picked this up as an allegory of such signing of fidelity to God through the love of Jesus to eternal patronage to each other.  Of ocourse the theologians had to give it a fancy name of transubstantiation.

The point is Andre:  is the pull of a blood brother signed in the blood fidelity throug hthe symbol of the wine so important to the children of God that Jesus cannot modernize it and saym "Use my HEART symbold and take a wafer and not the red wine, as the allegory is not well with Father.  My blood was spilled at Pentecost, and no more will my blood be spilled for any human cause ever again!"

Andre what say you looking into the future.  Is Christianity changeable?  What do we do when Jesus removes the cross at the altar?  Is the cross so important that if is taken from the altar, do they even feel like a church yet?

The practice of communion and the Eucharist.  That is unnecessary allegory to Jesus when He returns.

What happens when Jesus removes all subjects of the word sacrifice?  Or when he says, "I died as a human and not for your sins, but for your forgiveness to each other for perpetuating the pagan practice of blood sacrifice to Baal, as Our Father requires only your head bowed in submission to his will.  Amen."

END 



Ron
Located in Historic York, Pennsylvania

Offline Clency

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Re: RESTORATION OF THE CHURCH: THE BIBLE TO TEACH OR THE SECOND RETURN?
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2020, 01:44:38 pm »
The first Christian organization was the Catholic Church, which eventually broke into different denominations especially in the 1500s as a result of Martin Luther and John Calvin. Christianity is divided between Eastern and Western theology. In these two divisions there are six branches: Catholicism, Protestantism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Anglicanism, Oriental Orthodoxy, and Assyrians. Restorationism is sometimes considered the seventh branch. The major Protestant denominational families are : Adventists, Baptists, Congregationalists, Lutherans, Methodists, Pentecostals and Presbyterians.”excerpt from an article

Personally, I dread that any of these Christian denominations accept the idea of letting go of their practices and beliefs, without fighting tooth and nails, by clinging to what they consider as the “truth” of their liturgy. However, there is one branch of Christianity, which is not in the list above, I don’t know how to name them, but they are considered as Christians, they use the Bible as a reference and their pastors practice healings in the name of Jesus, the center of their belief. Anyhow, all those Christians are waiting for the Second Return of Jesus and in my own view, I don’t see any of them embracing His Presence and agree very easily to let down the cross. We will have to go through hardship, unless Jesus Himself demonstrates His Divine Power. Domtia
I am your servant, I am your liegeman, it is my will that your will be done.

Offline Andre_P

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Re: RESTORATION OF THE CHURCH: THE BIBLE TO TEACH OR THE SECOND RETURN?
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2020, 11:17:01 am »
After reflecting for a moment, you will quickly realize that the answer to Ron's questions above will have to be shortened, because a long list easily appears in your mind.

First of all, it will be difficult for even well educated people, both believers in God and atheists, to believe all that remains important in The Urantia Book and what will change. Even such a thing as having to step off the pedestal of an inhabitant of the only inhabited planet in the universe can be a serious problem for a long time, maybe even the same as it used to be that the Earth is not flat and is not the center of the universe around which everything revolves, not only the sun.

When it comes to divine and religious matters, I can only talk about Catholics, especially in Poland, because even with the Orthodox and the Eastern Catholic Church I had little contact, like the vast majority of Poles. I think that the present pope can be a very positive element in introducing changes in the Catholic Church. I would not be surprised if he pressed for change to the limit of the grassroots revolt of priests and believers, for I would have thought that there are already quite a few Catholics who question the authority of the papacy, who until recently was so sure. That do not prevent people from treating such books as The Urantia Book as heresy, although theoretically there is no longer a church "index" - a list of forbidden books. Besides, many people, also not interested in religion, treat The Urantia Book as fairy tales, which are a waste of time to study, because there is so much to do everyday, and above all there is daily entertainment in front of the television.

For many priests, changes can be the equivalent of changing profession, which is not easy for almost anyone. Besides, the faithful must be firmly maintained, because they feed the priests, so one must not impose views or customs that they do not wish to adopt, especially if they consider them sacred.

It is very important to reach out to people with the truth that spirits have never ceased consciously communicating with certain people. It is believed that only the prophets and Jesus long ago had a right to do so, and until now only the Bible is an enduring record of it. It is known that Saint Francis had to explain that animals spoke to him so as not to be condemned by the church.

It will be very difficult to change the view of what is human and what is God's business. Even matters such as conscious parenting (artificial contraception) can often be treated as a domain in which only god has the right to intervene, so many human efforts to permanently improve the human body and perhaps the spirit are hard to expect. So far, only Michael of Nebadon can seriously think about it, as well as of the overpopulation of the planet. States, let alone societies, that do not support population growth are very rare. I have not heard of the UN or any significant organization having an interest in overpopulation problem of the planet.

It will be very difficult to turn from the cross, not only because it is a very emotional symbol that "Jesus died for our sins because he obeyed the Father", but also because it is an important example of not hesitating to die for faith. I think explaining to people why the crucifixion of Jesus happened is very important to this case, and this is only just beginning, probably because of the New Age of Univers.

Until now, there are common beliefs in Poland that real contact with God can only be achieved through the Host and that it is obligatory once a year. There are no associations with the sacrifice of real flesh and blood. Divorce is against God's law and signifies excomunication. Failure to attend Mass on Sundays and church holidays is a sin and requires the consent of the high hierarchy.

There are many serious differences in the views and behavior of Catholics in France and in Poland, but the most important ones do not differ.

Of course, introducing changes, both in beliefs and in people's behavior, as well as in social relations, which I do not mention here, will depend fully on the actions of the Mission and certainly on their incarnate leaders, but maybe someday also on us, people, when we will work for them every day.

Andre
« Last Edit: September 02, 2020, 11:33:09 am by Andre_P »

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Re: RESTORATION OF THE CHURCH: THE BIBLE TO TEACH OR THE SECOND RETURN?
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2020, 01:28:24 pm »
What you wrote here Andre is well spoken.  The daunting task is to have an institution like the church change itself into a ndw wave of thinking it probably can never do.  That is why me question:  Will they learn from Jesus to behave differently toward God then they presently do?  Or will the church just resort to the Bible always as it is authoritative to them always in their mind?


My question implies that Jesus carries so much influence in he current worship practices, is His renewed appearnce strong enough to change how the BIble is authoritative to the Chrch>  Knowing mankind as both of us do, I suspect many will through their lot in with Jesus, and then never look back.  But the Church is too old to suddenly behave differently for all sorts of reasons. 



For that reason, the reapperance of Jesus may force yet another schism agains the institution of the Catholic Church, and then into all of the other sects eventually.  I am not hopeful there will be a new age of reasoning as the Mother Church would have it, but that new churches will likely spring up that are full of oarishoners some Catholic some Protestant and some otherwise, and the new priests and ministers are not properly grounded to carry these new churches to be succesful at all.  IF that happens the world of Christianity may become a tangle of heresy style workship centers and then I think the work of Jesus will hold better after all that has happened.


But your guess is as good as mine, Andre.  The will of man can be so fickle and unsure that forecasting its choices is not unlike trying to climb a tower without a ladder.  I am glad you tried your hand at asking these questions, because I think the woes and trouble that follow all of the divine events will be very harsh and supremely difficult to see the issues about loyalty to one's 0wj religion to answer just what you want to believe.    Thank you.

RON
MICHAEL OF NEBADON - "Well stated Ron.  You are the one who sees clearly that Jesus must never say to man, I do not want the cross anymore.  But that is so important to Jesus, he will say it anyhow.  Such a statement from Jesus is tantamount to flauting a surrender flag to evil in the mind of most people.  JEsus sees the cross as an instrument of torture, but Saint Paul made it into a vritue b stateing that Jesus died thereon to absolve his work for the Father and remove all sin from the trails of man to become better men and women.


:For thjat reason, and as you reason it too, Andre has put his finger on the sure reason why mankind on Urantia has a major number of things to decide about what they believe.


"For that reason too Ron, you have put your finger on the rascal idea about what the new church has to do.  What authority does it recognized now?  Is it the Bible?  Or is it Jesus Himself?  I do not know the answer either s it is an excellent way to revies the conundrum that comes to all men very soon.   I am JESUS and I am MICHEAL and yet I know that divisions exist too well in the minds of the parishoners to just dismiss the issue to straighten itself out by letting time take it on and waiting for reason to occur.  Man is a slow wit when it comes to accepting forced changes on him, but that is what is going to happen when Jesus returns again.  Thank you for opening this thread to all who can add a voice.


END
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Re: RESTORATION OF THE CHURCH: THE BIBLE TO TEACH OR THE SECOND RETURN?
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2020, 09:20:46 pm »
I am following this thread. While there is a lot to say to the questions posed, that is: The Bible to teach or the Second Return? Let me say from my background of protestant upbringing under my earthly parents, my father who was an Anglican minister in the Church of England, a devout bible basher and a proponent Jesus-centred preacher that taught in the “Jesus-died-for-our sins” type of vein. This has been the mainstay of my time in growing up under such atoning evangelical teachings of the Cross. I would say in answer to the questions here, put simply, it would be mostly the Bible to teach. That is because it is the base on which all our teachings are sprung. Without which there is no church gathering to celebrate what we learn from the Scriptures both of the Old Testament and the New Testament. That is the current method of Christianity as we know it even in the 21st Century on Urantia.


The question of how the Second Return of Jesus can teach us better than the Bible remains up to how Jesus would like to handle his story to man. Obviously, it is going to be a shock to most Christians as to how he views the Cross. That is going to be the one single correction that will flatten out lots of errors single handedly by his very words. How the flock will receive it is going to take time to absorb it and accept it. Hence, patience is the key in this second part of the question in regards to the corrective teaching that Jesus will bring to the flock and to the rest of the world at large who would care to listen.


This morning I had an interesting thought that came to me. What if Jesus appeared and was accompanied by holy men and women we would recognise by their wise teachings. The Dalai Lama is one that came to my mind as well as Mother Theresa, Saint Paul and even scientists like Albert Einstein and Carl Sagan to name a few other great minds. It  would become a counsel of great thinkers as well as wisdom. Just recently, I came across an interesting post with David Wilcock who presents the case of what the Alien Exterrestrials are trying to convey to us. And that is that they want us to know about our Ascension. That is the key word that is getting across in their messages in this post that David Wilcock wishes to share his insights and knowledge. It is obvious that he may not be aware of the Urantia Book as that also has mention of the Ascension Career in it. Had he read this book, he would be better for it to see what the ETs are trying to tell him. It is also what Jesus would be about as well in regards to his gospel he espoused to his disciples so long ago  and again it will become a fresh reminder to his followers today. Having this understanding of the gospel, it will rewrite the biblical story in the context of the now Jesus proclamation of the Ascension Career for all who are willing with the Father of All. Hence, it will become a Father-centric affair when we learn of the truth of the Thought Adjuster that is indwelling us as our “pilot light”. So in reality Christianity will be far better off in coming to terms of the gospel that Jesus wishes to get right and properly understood in our minds. The Cross will then become useless even obsolete, when we understand the Ascension Career plan and of the truth that Jesus brings of the Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man. 


To be fair, as I grew up, the Church was all I knew at the time, the Bible was the fundamental textbook by which our faith stands and the manner in which we grow in spirit and how God moves in us, is and always has been, a great inspiration for most of us who walk with God.  Unfortunately, in some ways in my young adult life I became a walking bible, so-to-speak, until one day I got an epiphany or an OOBE to really allow me the sense of the greater reality that awaits us yet. There is way more than what we know now. The Father is very much intimate in our walk with Him and it was made evident in the way I received the OOBE when I did. I zoomed out of the body to a peaceful place, timeless and amazingly still, aeons went by while we, the Christ Adjuster and me were engaged in a compelling dialogue where we discussed many, many, many things. Suddenly, I looked up to survey my surroundings and saw a warm orange/golden haze all around us and then I found myself waking up in the body where I lay sunbaking in the warm sun near the pool. It was as if time did not exist. It was as if I was a genie, let out of the bottle for a little while to see something and then was placed back in the bottle. I soon came to the sense that we are more than we are now and how I felt so closed in when I came back into the bottle of this form I wear. Our Ascension is real and is awaiting us to take up with willingness even now. That is the truth of it and how Jesus is going to convey that part of it will require all the wisdom to impart it. When one has gone through such reality awakening, then it makes it more compelling to learn more of what that was. That is how I came across TUB and, with some trepidation, due to my years of brainwashing of bible-bashing, it took a lot to keep going to get through the voluminous pages of the Urantia Book when I did. Soon I realised when it espouses the Son of Man and the Son of God, I knew I was reading something genuine and true. It rang true because it speaks for us as creatures of the Divine. TUB was and still is a profound book to read and even with all the changes it still has so much there for us to understand and know about with the cosmology of the Universe of Universes, The Deities, the Ascension Career and with the history of Urantia with the Lucifer Rebellion. So many answers were given to me as I did have so many unanswered questions when I first came into reading TUB. Now I also see the importance of having a new revelatory book out to allow us humans the better and more updated insights that TUB has started out with. Jesus would be better supported with such a resource as a companion in the teaching parameters that is going to be so badly needed. Just as the Christians adhere to their bibles, so too, do we require the new book to shine the light in a new era. 


Now that the ‘old guard’ is removed and a new guard of the NUA is formed, I see a new vanguard of truth to espouse even more so than what transpired. With the ‘old guard’ gone, we can now move into a greater realm of possibilities being more and more Father-Centric rather than Jesus-centred as in the times of old in Christianity with the Cross. Here, we have a great new path to walk, cleared of the debris of rebellion, and can walk with our heads up high in the knowledge of Father-In-Us and with our hearts lifted up in praise and worship for the wonder of His omnipresence. Christians need to see that “Christ is In Us” that is what the word CHRISTIAN is. It also means that we are “Believers in Christ”. That is, “Christ” is “God With Us”.  and therefore, the old adage of the ancient times of Abraham: “The I AM THAT I AM”!  Hence, you can see how the OT and NT has come together in the truth of God as the “I AM”, and how Jesus understands this Source of His being as well in his teachings.


To sum it up in answer to the questions posed, I would aver to think it would require a counsel of great teachers as listed above, as well as Jesus as Himself, and along with a new revelatory book to accompany the teaching parameters for our minds to be trained in the greater truths we all need in ourselves. TUB has done that beautifully and an updated one would do even a better service to us in the years to come. The Church, if it learns in humility of what Jesus sees as his side of the story, would become a great beacon when it embraces the holistic truths inherent in the teachings that have been alluded to, and will and ever be for our minds to be lifted unto God Himself. 

Sue/7inOcean

Offline Andre_P

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Re: RESTORATION OF THE CHURCH: THE BIBLE TO TEACH OR THE SECOND RETURN?
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2020, 03:44:33 am »
The above discussion, initiated by Ron in the first post of this thread and clearly spelled out in answer 7, indicates that we all see evolutionary solutions so far, that there will not be a collision of two trains traveling in opposite directions on the same track. Even Michael of Nebadon speaks of a rather difficult evolution.

Everyone mentions the Bible, but Michael compares it to the real Jesus that He is, and we also know a little bit about how the present-day Holy Bible was created and that it is not so sacred and certainly different from Jesus' teachings. We know that it was drafted according to the wishes of the one Roman Emperor, long after the death of all witnesses of Jesus' life, and the Pope at the time was forced to approve it along with a drafted list of church dogmas, and it all determines very strongly what Christians believe so far, because not believing in all this were decided by this decision of the emperor and the pope to punish with death.

Michael mentions Saint Paul as one who greatly influenced the teachings of the church, of which he was one of the founders but was long dead, when it was decided to make a Bible. Maybe he would like to tell us something. That would be interesting for sure.

As far as predictions are concerned I think it can be summarized that the train collision can hardly be avoided. Rather, it will be the story of the emergence of new churches in addition to the evolution of all the old religions. Simply put, it may not be possible to avoid a collision of trains and we do not know at what speed they will collide and what the consequences will be, or maybe we can stop them in time.

By the way, another question is whether, in the earthly age of communication, maybe we will not need great buildings, especially for religious meetings. Perhaps we are satisfied with totems, like our North American Indians, when we learn what it is like on other inhabited planets.

Andre

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Re: RESTORATION OF THE CHURCH: THE BIBLE TO TEACH OR THE SECOND RETURN?
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2020, 08:16:14 am »
Andre your post above is excellent and I thank you for the summary it provides us with concerning the issues at hand.

We, right now, and I am not sure you understand this fully, are working around to very large issues that affect what what can be said here. 

First, Michael of Nebadon, is in the middle of incarnating right now.  Did you know that or how we must take that into consideration?

Second, I am so ill I can hardly move from room to room in my own home and must face three different surgeries in the next three weeks too.  I am deeply imbued on the idea this is the severe consequences of traitors in spirit and I am pretty bitter about it.  No one explains to me why so many of us are so ill right in the middle of a processing incarnation of the event of the millennia for all of Nebadon and maybe for Paradise depending on how they take our views that Jesus is so essential to our promised good lives on Urantia, it is the event that seals our fate for millennia to come if that is possible.

I wish I could summon Saint Paul for you, but the entire Local Universe of Nebadon is forcing the matter of the Michael incarnation with the past soul of Jesus to be a terrible thing right in the middle of negotiations for Michael to take on universe work outside of Nebadon.  That is occurring as we speak and I am not advised of what or why it is so, but MICHAEL OF NEBADON feels it must be taken on but after the Bestowal Son, Jesus of Nazareth is done with the entire matter of a Second Return.  I would not want to be Michael right now for the reason I would be so torn over the promise for future influences on the Grand Universe and maybe the Master Universe, and the need for Jesus to Return and force the tide of such evil on Urantia to be dissipated into thin air.   I also fully agree I am putting a spin on this all by myself just to emphasize what issues are playing out as we quibble over Christianity and its acceptance of inevitable change they will not and do not like.
I think I have made the point well enough now and let this sit for further discussion when there might be something new to consider that I, as usual, do not know about  that might change our view of Christian inability to follow their onw Master.

RON



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Re: RESTORATION OF THE CHURCH: THE BIBLE TO TEACH OR THE SECOND RETURN?
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2020, 08:40:05 am »
The entire modern church, be it Eastern or Western, is absolutely godless. It is built on distorted principles and positions of Judaism. Their god is Lucifer, that is, as Jesus said, your god is the devil.
 
The church today will not accept Christ. The teachings of Paul are so deeply rooted in the minds of believers that they would rather recognize the Antichrist in the coming Christ than their savior ...
 
I know from personal experience how churchmen react to the revelations of The Urantia Book.
 
That is why I once again express my own opinion that before the global cleansing of the planet, the coming of Christ could cause tremendous upheavals in this godless world. ...
 
And further. The Old Testament is a distorted history of the “chosen people”. This is a historical monument, no more ...
 
Read The Urantia Book, except for the chapters pointed out by Ron.
 
 
Вся современная церковь, хоть восточная, хоть западная абсолютно безбожна. Она построена на искаженных принципах и на позициях иудаизма. Их бог – люцифер, то есть, как сказал Иисус – ваш бог дьявол.
Современная церковь не примет Христа. Догматы Павла так глубоко укоренились в сознании верующих, что они скорее признают в пришедшем Христе антихриста, чем своего спасителя…
По личному опыту знаю, как реагируют церковники на откровения Книги Урантии.
Вот почему я в который раз выражаю собственное мнение, что до глобальной чистки планеты приход Христа может вызвать огромные потрясения в этом безбожном мире.…
И еще. Ветхий завет – это искаженная история «избранного народа». Это памятник истории, не более…
Читайте Книгу Урантии, кроме тех глав, на которые указал Рон.