A Concept You Ought to Think About is Appearing and Do Your Best to Understand

[Andre_P]

Valerie,
I have the impression that you want to draw us into completely wrong comparisons by saying that you have discovered evidence. You're comparing two similar shapes and two similar terms, yet both represent something completely different.

The images depicting ellipsoids in the aricle you point to at the beginning of your post and the one in Ron's post (Answer #8, above) are two completely different things. One shows our neighborhood discovered by a new flying telescope at a distance of 380 million light years, and the other depicts the Master Universe, where it talks about sizes larger than a few tens of thousands of millions of light years. (More than 100 times larger)

I have the impression that you are also confusing astronomers' loose term "local universe" and the term Local Universe from the Urantia Book, which is a concept from the field of organization of the universe, much broader than time and space, and I don't think we know what shape it has.

[prozonov]

The source of my thoughts is the Father. I don't plagiarize.

[Ron Besser]

Valerie, your post is rather extraordinary from the perspective of your ability to explain you doubts and your assurances.  You do portray what science has so far seen  as galactic space shape and to some extent duration.  What do I mean "duration."  That is a time reference as to the age of light we like to speak of as light years and parsecs I believe, and  a parsec, or “parallax second,” is defined as 3.26 light-years.   Those units are necessary to orient man minds and have not real meaning  to me because they limit the concept of  why the universe exists at all.  What that map shape discovery has proven is the shape contains an almost unlimited number of space bodies without comprehending it is also a picture of a trillion trillion life planets too, and such a fact never gets correlated in sciences exhalation if now has a shape in mind for creation application as a reality.  All I am doing is complaining they are so satisfied with a shape and have no concept whatsoever what they have done is only to show the presence of an elephant too big to measure in feet.  But I am glad to say I too am aware of the map you speak of and the revelation received even refers to the ARC OF INFINITY which I observe helps understand how light only seems to be deflected at times from what we call a trued light travel line to its destination.  Einstein is not wrong for our purposes, but the real truth I believe is more extraordinary than that and that is because light in an ellipsoid interior is directed not from the point of oirigin of that light, but from the Unqualified Absolute insisting the geometry of light travel is always referencing the Arc of Infinity.



The Arc of Infinity is the imaginary line that separates the interior Infinity of  the Master Universe from the proposed hyperinfinity impinging on the ellipsoid itself.  It is the spiral curve of our limits as a Master Universe not, but our imaginary line of reference that separates hyperfinity from molecular Infinity at this point of our understanding.


Now you engineers in thinking look at it this way:  Any arc of a curved surface has what we call a tangent line.  I prefer to view the Arc of Infinity to be in total a spiral curve, and that is a horrible process to deal with in our minds because a spiral curve, unlike a normal curve, has multiple radius points.  Then so does the Unqualified Absolute deals with such and UA relates to the geometry by controlling the release of a light beam to travel a true straight line but off a tangent inside the Master Universe curved surface reference.  That will cause light at 100 million light years from its source to its absorption to deflect itself about one inch off what we would project as its destination. (1")


This also means that mathematical models of space travel prove the ellipsoid shape of the universe we live in is ellipsoid as they too must calculate the local universe curvature to aim space capsules and probes and even a trip to Mars, very carefully if they expect to arrive on time and place well enough to be successful with the space probe purpose.  Yes Valerie it is to my mind a terrible complicated and hard to understand calculation reasoning to shore up why the universe is shaped this way by example of light trajectories appearing to arrive from great distances as somewhat deflected, but that deflection is precise too in that the Unqualified Absolute insists on using light as a source of complaint not but of affirming there are curves to this majesty science has not fully affirmed yet as useful to know.


For all of your minds look at the Arc of Infinity like a bow and the light an arrow.  The string on the bow is really a tangent (straight) line drawn between the two ends of the bow.  Now place yourself on the middle of that bow string.  You can face two ways.  One to the back of yourselves to the wood bow (that is the Arc of Infinity) or face forward where the arrow goes, and that is the destiny of where you land on the light target.



You as a light beam on that bow are placed by the Unqualified Absolute with your back precisely on the Qualified Absolutes issue of the precise radius point that is true  that runs through the bow line you are sitting on, and your are released as a light beam inside the universe right down that radius line through the bow line you are on.  Geometry is very complicated but that is part of the control the Absolutes insist upon for any molecular phenomenon appearing in the Master Universe and how it travels as light only.  Other matter materials are controlled by linear gravity, and light only tips its hat to linear gravity by obeying the gravity dips and spirals the light beam has to travel through to the target.  I wonder when science will finally relate their math to Master Universe totality of shape?  They have not done this at all as of yet.  This explanation might get you all to start looking at ellipsoid shapes as a series of regular curves but smoothed out into one ellipsoid shape by forcing the mind to understand no one fully comprehends this even on Paradise below the level of existential Deity.  You can see this Valerie quite well but I admit you need a little drawing to help you out and there is none yet to demonstrate this simple idea of light following a radius line through a tangent to the Arc of Infinity.


I post some thing else to ponder in the next window for you too.


Thank you


Ron Besser


MICHAEL OF NEBADON - "I am not letting this pass easily Ron.  You are fully correct in what you say above.  But remember the UNIVERSAL FATHER is concerned not with light trajectory, but with molecular cohesion.  Molecular cohesion allows the eye of man to see a planet, a moon, your friend;s body, and the cat you pet with comfort to you both.  Without molecular cohesion the eye to our minds would be blind.



"For that purpose then to all of you, the Arc of Infinity, which is a new term to me from Ron, is fully applicable as stated.  It exists and it is real enough to say light does follow the radius point through the tangent line drawn between two points on the curve line.   However the Unqualified Absolute is fussy about how light travels as Ron points out, and you as humans see it being deflected in some sort of way, but Alfred Einstein saw light differently until recently and he conjectures Ron is simply correct when it comes to ultimately understanding that supposed deflection from what man says is the straight line (point of origin to point of observation).  Ron says the true straight line is on the radius point to that segment of the curve the light source is sitting on.  He is absolutely correct, but Plank, the friend of Einstein, says that radius line is derived from inside the Master Universe as the true line of  the light arrival point to the Arc of Infinity, and as such can be deflected somewhat by linear gravity power.  Both are right, but both miss the fact that the UNIVERSAL FATHER does not care about true straight lines as a radius to travel on hat line, but deflects some light to avoid being seen at all!  You as a telescope worker cannot see the Havona outline because FATHER obscures the light emanating from Havona by blocking it and hiding it with huge gravity bodies so dense they absorb all light whatsoever from behind them.



"Ron points out as I write this, however, that light is the spiritual light of the Eternal Son mostly and we cannot see spirit light using the eye of man.  True, but there are one billion planets in Havona each the size of the entire size of the Monmatia solar system out to Jupiter each of them.  [Ron:  look at that fact again just so you do not gloss over it!).  For that reason the astrophysicist Max Plank says the theory of the Arc of Infinity is blasphemous not but slowly eeks out its truth in space travel inside the Master Universe truly, and admires a mind that can see that as easily as Ron did inventing that unusual theory of light trajectories in light travel.



"I am MICHAEL OF NEBADON and Plank calls Ron "wacky."  I do not.  Both Plank and Ron use a mind sequence in their heads you cannot replicate called a sonar blast.  They can bombard science and see where they fail to take into account all the data they discover, and that is how Ron came up with this theory about the ARC OF INFINITY.  I love the term and it sticks up there too as a true cause to be somewhat modified by more facts than Ron can know right now.  I am that CREATOR SON who appreciates the effort it takes to write this stuff down, and I know Ron has another point for Valerie in the next text window.  Until then, I bid you ado."  MICHAEL OF NEBADON, Thank you. K



See next text window for a completely different subject discussion.

[Ron Besser]

This text window is an extension of my response given the above window referring to the ARC OF INFINITY.

This text window response is reflecting on you Valerie placing the possibility of disicarnate souls in the non molecular cellar of the Master Universe. 

For some reason to state there is a floor line drawn sightly below the X axis coordinate seems to unhinge your thinking, all of you.  Well then believe what you want to, as that is the state of our sciences today as well.  That area beneath the line of the presence of all galaxies possible is quite real and it requires not imagination to understanding it, but an engineer's mind to comprehend volume unlimited but space conditioned.  There is your secret to understanding what lies below the X coordinate as shown on the drawing responses ago above.

However, Valerie, you do not go placing anything where nothing is allowed ever to go whatsoever.

Cleanse your minds that disincarnate souls are dead.  They are not, and they get resurrected and a morontial body is placed as them to exercise form and elementary contact with their environment on the mansion worlds.

Worst yet, Valerie, once the ANCIENTS OF DAYS decree life extinction for crimes unspeakable, those incarnated personality entities simply no longer exist, and that goes for high spirit and low spirit whatever they were called in Master Universe personalization of their divinity.

Those lost in the Lucifer rebellion are dead and gone as executed that day I was allowed to witness a little bit of it to show me the court process and the court appearance, not of Lucifer, but of Caligastia (whom I still fear today for the horror he perpetrated).  What you are referring to as Deity contacting dead divinity is not for you or me to understand, as it is one of the true revelations given that has no human explanation how the FATHER  can dislodge a disincarnate divinity once so proud of itself it failed to understand others had rights too.

What is involved as evidence of FATHER being able to approach us with the idea of gaining intelligence of purpose of Lucifer's deeds, is that FATHER is self organized and self created.  Do you know what that really means?  No one does Valerie, but that is the way FATHER exists to us, and that has to do probably until we exhaust the meaning of a Master Universe itself. 

It is very hard to get at because, first of all, you Valerie are saturated with time space language and meaning to it.  Believe me once you leave time, they do not understand what is a beginning or how an end can possibly occur.  Yet you refer to that outside view of no beginning and no endings as though you pass a loss of  a divinity life as dead.  They are dead.   HOWEVER:  there are constituent parts of who they once were that can be taken apart and stored not as existence but as a past fact.  FATHER can reference past fact we cannot, and that is the source of what you think is some of them still existing.  They do not exist.  The FACT of what they did still does and FATHER  can speak to it.

Worse yet, to say that again, you place facts in the cellar of the Master Universe.  No Valerie.  Not even facts are placed beneath the floor of the galaxies as that is reserved for diagnostic equipment and flavors of Infinity in its own terms and even the COORDINATES OF THE FATHER do not reference this level.  Valerie do you remember one of the biggest descriptions of the function of our FATHER ON PARADISE?  Do you remember the term CONTROLLER?  The existential Controller of the Master Universe reads those controls under the galaxy floor and it is not meant for time life in particular to understand much more than that at least at this point in your and my ascension career dear Valerie.    Nuff said.

END

[occerpa]

Until now I have something to comment after the surprising reception that my last post received from Ron and it seems, also from Father Michael of Nebadon, with a short but significant closing, all for having expressed my inability to understand the measures of the dimensions at the level of the Master Universe. Thank you very much Ron and thank you very much Father Michael, for the attention to my publication, but I must say that I declare myself at the stage where my effort to grow on this path of discoveries is focused on being able to make the most of the offers that Sai Baba presented during his life on the planet, one of which says: "Dedicate yourself to Me and obtain power from Me. To the extent that you intensify and accelerate that process of giving and taking, to that same extent, you will be happy and obtain success"; or this other: "Do not seek to be the ones who know the most but those who give the most, then the beauty of divine love will transform your heart into a source of wisdom". However, I am well aware that in our Serara Forum group, we have the high privilege of having the prodigious help of the first being "Homo Spiritualis" of Urantia, our exalted leader Ron Besser, who thanks to Father Michael of Nebadon, Ron  represents that indispensable interface phenomenon to make the understanding of new revelations and complex truths more assimilable, especially within the reach of the most qualified members of the Forum or those who have managed to tune in with their Thought Adjuster. I believe that the greatest complexity that prevents human beings from growing satisfactorily in this chaotic world, is the difficulty of transcending the quota of animality with which they are born and overcoming the identification with their body, now free from captivity, being able to act as the soul that is its real nature. By then, with a superior mind, the subphoton realities typical of the spiritual worlds should not represent so much complexity of understanding. I interpret it as transmuting from a 3D consciousness to a multidimensional one: From the formed to the formless. For now Ron, I still consider myself that dwarf you very respectfully mentioned. Thanks

[SonsofGod]

Thank you, Michael of Nebadon, Ron, Prozonov, and Andre for your responses.

First, I need to apologize to Prozonov if my comment was upsetting. Please know that it has not even crossed my mind that you would plagiarize, nor would say anything to discredit you. In fact, I am always looking forward to read your posts as you may share views and thoughts from a different angle, from a distant land, which I believe is a needed moving part of any discussion. It motivates us to be thinkers before accepting mainstream views due to lack of adequate information. In this case I could not see your points at all, but the only fact is that it is impossible for both theories to coexist. Accordingly, my goal was to encourage searching for the truth in this matter, especially through prayer.

Now I see me wrong for not maintaining a neutral position and ask questions, instead of telling my opinion and ask you to adhere to it. For this I am sorry. I could have done better. My communications skills need some improvement as I tend to get hasty and ‘educational’ without authority. The question really is how much authority we have to criticize or pose to be influencers. The world really ran away with it and it looks like some of us like me got stock on the middle, I don’t know. I am always ready to change the world and always ready to tell what’s wrong. May Father help me into position to utilize this gift given to me. I see it as a gift because most people do not have that. Now I just need to learn to use it the right way. We all have different gifts and I felt you would understand my point.

Furthermore, I found it reasonable to refer to the fact that most of our knowledge derives from teachers who were first assigned to teach us in schools. We have learned basic math in schools from various qualified teachers, for example, and accepted their unified curriculum to be unchangeable knowledge. As we find nothing wrong with learning from accredited sources so as I found nothing wrong that you accepted the theory you shared and encouraged you to think it over. Our quest for knowledge particularly brought us to this forum. We respect each other’s views but eventually will seek to unify our believes as I have intended through my curtailed approach. The only reason I have perceived that your description is coming through such teacher is that you lacked giving any details or explanation. I see burning passion in Ron’s heart who, in spite of poor reception, keeps teaching us knowledge that is often over our capacity to conceive. Yet he is keep pouring out. Considering the shape of the universe I would like to ask Michael of Nebadon and Universal Father to add to this discussion, if they will.

I anticipate the form of the Universe to be characterized by fluent curves (must be curved or it would truly be endless). Now if there is a spiral movement too, I cannot easily comprehend that. I saw the ‘rose of the universe’ constellation swirling in a spiral movement. I hope this clarifies my best intention to confront and hope to spark some debate about this fascinating subject.

Ron in your response you have revealed new thoughts and concepts that for me will take multiple readings to get somewhat hold of, and thus cannot add much value to it now. I have some questions but not ready to ask them yet. I need to meditate over what you wrote about the light’s movement in the Universe. First of all, I do not understand how light can travel millions of light years and still carry the information from the point of its origin, if the light had to bump into trillions of objects along the way. I hope I can relate better in the future for reason of expanding our minds beyond our current limitations.

Having said that, Andre, I understand your valid point, my statement is based on personal views and observations, and by no means serve for proof in a scientific debate. I compared the two different shapes as one being birthed into the other, as part of the whole being in a similar fashion. I think it should be a considerable point that Michael of Nebadon learned how to create from Father in Paradise. Since creation obeys physical laws unless Father decides otherwise, it is reasonable to have the Local Universe shaped similarly to the Gran Universe even if they defer many ways. I know the difference between general or specific and thought that the Local Universe of Nebadon is being mapped on that image but did not point it out because scientist do not know its name. I have seen another map made by the Hubble telescope of a neighboring local universe being shaped in the same ellipsoid form. Again, I would like to ask Michael of Nebadon if that would be the case or not. Thank you in advance, Peace, 

sonsofGod