Author Topic: Origins of the Christian Concept of Jesus  (Read 331 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline gitz

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 242
  • Steven's Law: God never made one of anything!
    • View Profile
    • Email
Origins of the Christian Concept of Jesus
« on: April 04, 2020, 10:31:50 am »
As an understanding or true concept of anything, one must search the origin of the anything.  Often a concept or understanding fails to be true for the reason the the origin is not considered or evaluated Truly.

The absence of eh understanding of the origin of Jesus is the greatest misconception and problem with Christianity.   Christians err when seeking the true origin of Jesus because they just don't know.  And why is that?  Well, because they have been taught only what they have been taught which is fallacious.  By that I mean that Christianity has placed Jesus' origin to the Trinity, of all things, the Second Person of the Trinity that we call the ETERNAL SON.

So, let's consider the greatest mistake that Christianity has made in the placement of origin of Jesus.  We can start with a recent 2015 PEW report that reports that 31% of the world's population are Christians.  That's 2.94 billion people by the Divine Censors accounting for 9.4 billion total population.  Looking deeper into that statistic we discover this count of Catholics alone.  As of January 2020 the ecclesiastical jurisdiction statistics for Latin and Eastern Catholic Churches are as follows:
1 Holy See
9 Patriarchates
4 Major Archdiocese
560 Metropolitan Archdioceses
76 Archdioceses
2,246 Dioceses
42 Prelatures
11Territorial Abbeys
13 Apostolic Exarchates
9 Easter Catholic Church Ordinariates
36 Military Ordinariates
1 Personal Prelature
83 Apostolic Vicariates
39 Apostolic Vicariates
39 Apostolic Prefectures
8 Apostolic Administrations, and finally
8Mission "sui jieris"

The Catholic Church is the "worlds oldest continually functioning 'international' institution."  The Catholic Church is also the largest non-governmental provider of education and health care in the world while the diplomatic  status of the Holy See facilitates the access of its vast international network of charities.

Now, this world population embodies the Catholic Church.  And where does this population place the Origin of Jesus?  It places Jesus' origin smack dab at the Isle of Paradise --The ETERNAL SON, the Second Person of the Trinity.  Did you know that?  In fact, the Catholic Church teaches that Jesus is the ONLY, yes, only begotten Son of the Universal Father.  Ladies and gentlemen, think of this! 2.914 billion Catholics believe their fixation that Jesus is not just Trinity created, if you will, but that Jesus IS Trinity, the 2nd Person of the Trinity; that Jesus is the what we know as the ETERNAL SON, along with the UNIVERSAL FATHER and the INFINITE SPIRIT.  So, Catholics place Jesus of the Trinity.  Furthermore, the Catholics are taught and do believe without question that Jesus is the ONLY begotten Son of God, and that God sent Jesus here to save our planet.  Of course, we know that our Creator Son, M

Online Andre_P

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 241
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Origins of the Christian Concept of Jesus
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2020, 10:54:50 am »
Steven, you have lost the end of your post.

Offline SongatSunrise

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 45
    • View Profile
Re: Origins of the Christian Concept of Jesus
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2020, 12:13:45 pm »
Dear Steve,
SongAtSunrise here, and I'm singing in the key of C!
“When Morning Gilds the Skies, my heart within me cries, “May Jesus Christ be praised!”(hint: it starts on E).

Yes, I have been a church pianist all my life (and that's 60 years!), Every week in the Protestant church we recite the creed, and it says among other things that aren't true: “I believe in Jesus Christ, His only son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary. . . “

OK, Mr. Gitz, include in your statistics all the Protestant churches that also believe this. The famous quote from the Bible that proves this is John 3:16,“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only-begotten Son. . . “ Even the Urantia book explains this slightly by saying that every local universe has “only one” Creator Son. (The fact that Jesus volunteered is a different matter).

What I am saying is that the number of people on this planet who believe this is a huge minority. I experienced some spiritual earthquakes when I first read the Urantia book, and saw all the things I had accepted so long just being dumped in the trash can. How may the revelation of the real truth be taught and received?

So, Mr. Gitz, attempting to change this belief suddenly might be a losing battle. The power of myth, imagination, fantasy , assumptions, affirmations, brainwashing, propaganda, and every other sort of mind game employed by less than Godly sources is a force that needs to be dealt with positively, with all faith, assurance, peace and joy. We won't undo the faith of others, however faulty, but rather gradually replace the faulty reasoning with tidbits of truth that accumulate. But don't forget the power of imagination! You're a musician. You know.

Is the acknowledgment that the dual role of Jesus/Michael going to be a linchpin in our attainment of salvation? Is it going to be a stumbling block? What is more important? To correctly acknowledge Jesus as the Creator Son or incorrectly acknowledge Jesus as one member of the Trinity?
If we accept the Urantia book status of Jesus, is He being demoted? Local Universe Creator Son versus the Trinity? Even the Apostles didn't have a very clear concept of Jesus as Creator Son.

It is my belief, Steve, that we can find Jesus anywhere we open our hearts to look for him. Shakespeare said in “Romeo and Juliet” “That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet”. Many people have some rudimentary knowledge of Jesus because of the relationship they have with Him. Jesus will never discount that.

I think it would be good to appreciate all the ways Jesus appears to us in metaphors, in symbols, in synchronicities, in bursts of enlightenment. I wouldn't debunk too soon the effort of the book by John Granger ”Looking for God in Harry Potter” where names, events, symbols, situations and story line all point to (in the author's eyes) the life and career of Jesus and to salvation as a theme.

Actually wrapping our minds around the real truth may possibly be a struggle for some. Coming to know Jesus and Michael is an ongoing evolutionary walk. Starting out with the Catholic version is at least a start. “A bruised reed he shall not break,” “He will gently lead”. . .



Online Ron Besser

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4900
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Origins of the Christian Concept of Jesus
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2020, 12:44:56 pm »
{He gave His only begotten Son," is still correct, but there are two different interpretations of what that means, and roughly speaking, these are the two:

1 =  Man believes there is only one Son of God and that is Jesus.

2 = God means it to say that Jesus is unique as an individual,  but there are many like Him who do the same work.

My question to you dear pianist, is do you understand the difference between man and God and the meaning of the statement you quote from the Bible, John 3:16.  I feel sure John the Revelator meant what man gives the meaning too the statement, and was completely unaware of the cosmology of the universe planners that if there are 700,000 Local Universes, then there are 700,000 Jesus types taking origin in time and space.

That statement of John is true so long as you and we understand that Jesus is so special and incorruptible there is no duplication anywhere of Him in particular.  I never fault John for saying this and it is very dear to me too.  What you may be saying is that to learn that for every independent local universe government has their own Jesus, is too hard on our souls to accept Jesus being a common denominator to the 700,000 Creator Sons who choose to earn their right to portray the Father to mankind as a Son of God among them as human, is too discomforting.

You have some proof on your side about man and his dislike of being disabused of his special beliefs.  Look at our Urantia Foundation and its inability to accept anything whatsoever there is any error in the 5th epochal revelation.  They insist it cannot happen and they insist anyone who suggests it is creating error or, perhaps, sins against the will of God.  Yet you Sunrise have experienced the travails of change coming over the 5th epochal revelation yourself, and would warn any institution forcing error to be taught now without making amends to change to speaking the truth about what has happened.   Jesus never was or is the Eternal Son, but in Nebadon he is the only begotten Son, but in the Grand Universe, he is potentially only one of 700,000.

I do not know why man cannot live with both meanings, so long as man understands to what sector of the universe one speaks of when looking at Bestowal Sons as Jesus is and was.  But the hard part is to teach the exception and not the error.  I appreciate your lecture.   Ron.
Located in Historic York, Pennsylvania

Offline gitz

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 242
  • Steven's Law: God never made one of anything!
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Origins of the Christian Concept of Jesus
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2020, 02:07:51 pm »
Ron, thanks for your reply--most appreciated.
I had to finish the post that I started a while ago this morning because something happened and it froze up on me and just posted on its own.  Either some little rascal was messing around or, I hate to say it, but you know how I send before finishing emails when on my cell phone.  But this morning I took my coffee to my office and I never (Right!) err on the computer.
So, please get rid of the earlier one  that was "take away" so it doesn't confuse our friends.  Thanks.......S.