Person:
does schizophrenia produces copious amounts of information streams and voices that could last years? Yet seemingly act normal when needed with others?
Computer:
Yes, schizophrenia can involve experiencing multiple streams of voices, thoughts, and information that can persist for years. People with schizophrenia may hear multiple distinct voices commenting on their actions, having conversations, or giving commands. These experiences can be continuous but may vary in intensity.
Interestingly, many people with schizophrenia can sometimes maintain what appears to be typical social interaction and behavior in certain situations, particularly for short periods or in familiar settings. This is sometimes called "social cognition preservation" - where someone can draw on learned social skills and behaviors even while experiencing symptoms. However, this can be extremely mentally and emotionally taxing for the person.
It's important to note that the ability to "act normal" doesn't mean the person isn't experiencing significant distress or that they don't need support and treatment. The internal experience can be overwhelming even when it's not obvious externally.
Would you like to learn more about any specific aspect of how schizophrenia affects daily functioning or thought processes?
Person:
No, more about any cases of religious writings and people claiming religious authority because of communications that they think are God, but clinicians think is schizophrenia
Computer:
This is a fascinating intersection of religious experience and mental health. There have been numerous historical and contemporary cases where distinguishing between religious revelation and symptoms of schizophrenia has been complex and debated:
James Tilly Matthews (1770s-1815) is one of the earliest well-documented cases. He claimed to receive divine messages and believed he was involved in supernatural political conspiracies. He was institutionalized in Bedlam hospital, but some of his followers considered him a prophet.
Emanuel Swedenborg (1688-1772) reported extensive visions and communications with angels and spirits that began suddenly in his 50s. While he had a distinguished scientific career before this, he spent the latter part of his life writing extensive theological works based on these experiences. Scholars still debate whether his experiences were due to mental illness or genuine religious experiences.
The case of Daniel Paul Schreber (1842-1911) is particularly notable in psychiatric history. A respected German judge, he wrote extensively about his direct communications with God and his belief that he was being transformed into a woman by divine rays. His memoirs became an important text in both psychiatric literature and religious studies.
Modern clinicians now look at several factors when evaluating such cases:
- The cultural context and whether the experiences align with established religious traditions
- The impact on daily functioning and ability to maintain relationships
- Whether the person shows other symptoms of schizophrenia like disorganized thinking or behavior
- The age of onset and progression of symptoms
- The presence of distress or impairment
However, many scholars and clinicians acknowledge this remains a complex area where cultural, religious, and medical perspectives can sometimes conflict.
Would you like to explore any particular aspect of this intersection between religious experience and mental health in more detail?
Person:
Does onset of conditions tend to happen after 40 years of age?
Computer:
No, schizophrenia typically has a much earlier onset. The most common age of onset is:
- Late teens to early 20s for men (typically 18-25)
- Late 20s for women (typically 25-35)
Late-onset schizophrenia (after age 40) is relatively rare, occurring in only about 20% of cases. When psychotic symptoms first appear after age 40, clinicians often look for other potential causes like:
- Brain tumors
- Dementia
- Delirium
- Drug interactions
- Neurological conditions
- Major depression with psychotic features
This is one reason why claims of divine revelation or religious authority that begin after age 40 are often evaluated differently from similar claims made by younger adults. While late-onset schizophrenia is possible, the age pattern would be unusual for the condition, suggesting other factors might be at play.
Early-onset cases tend to have more severe symptoms and poorer outcomes compared to late-onset cases, though there can be significant variation between individuals.
. . .
I apologize, but I cannot directly access or browse the forum link you provided or read the books in real-time. However, I can discuss this type of case in general terms and would be happy to analyze any specific content, quotes, or passages that you could share from Ron Besser's writings.
For analyzing religious/spiritual claims in relation to mental health, clinicians typically look for patterns like:
1. The progression and timeline of the experiences
2. How the beliefs/communications developed
3. Whether the content is internally consistent over time
4. How well the person maintains other aspects of their life
5. Whether the experiences align with or drastically depart from established religious/spiritual frameworks
Person:
Will the person with these symptoms observed, perceived, felt or accused by others typically be acknowledged by the person exhibiting such conditions? Or does the person with the conditions typically double down on their appeal to authority because of their special status?
Computer:
Typically, people experiencing symptoms of schizophrenia or related conditions have what's called "anosognosia" - a lack of insight or awareness about their condition. This affects about 50-98% of people with schizophrenia, according to clinical studies.
When confronted about their beliefs or experiences, they often:
- Strongly defend their experiences as real and meaningful
- Reinforce their claims to special knowledge or status
- View skepticism from others as persecution or lack of understanding
- Develop more elaborate explanations to justify their beliefs
- May incorporate challengers into their belief system as "unenlightened" or "opposing forces"
This "doubling down" is particularly common in cases involving religious or spiritual authority claims because:
1. The very nature of spiritual authority often positions itself above ordinary human judgment
2. Religious frameworks can provide ready-made explanations for why others don't understand or accept their experiences (e.g., "only the chosen can understand")
3. Opposition from others can be interpreted as validation of their special status (e.g., "prophets are always persecuted")
When someone maintains professional functioning and social relationships while holding these beliefs, it can make it even harder for them to recognize potential issues, as they may use their continued functionality as evidence that their experiences are real rather than symptomatic.
External intervention is usually only successful when the person's functioning becomes significantly impaired or when they develop trust in someone who can gradually help them consider alternative explanations for their experiences.
Person:
What if there is a combination of good and bad outputs, for example, setting up institutional entities and patents, but also developing what others consider a community of followers with many leaving because of the poor experiences with what they consider schizophrenia?
Computer:
This kind of mixed presentation is actually quite common and particularly complex to evaluate. The ability to successfully manage some aspects of life (like business/legal matters) while experiencing significant issues in other areas (interpersonal/community relationships) is a phenomenon that deserves careful analysis:
The functional aspects (like patents and institutional setup) can indicate:
- Preserved executive functioning
- Ability to navigate complex systems
- Intellectual capability
- Understanding of practical matters
The community dysfunction patterns often show:
- High initial attraction to the person's charisma or ideas
- Gradual recognition of concerning patterns by followers
- Exodus of community members over time
- Consistent reports of erratic behavior or concerning communications
- Pattern of replacing departed followers with new ones who haven't yet experienced the concerning behaviors
This combination is particularly challenging because:
1. The functional achievements can serve as "evidence" against concerns
2. New followers may dismiss previous followers' warnings due to seeing the functional successes
3. The person can point to their practical achievements to deflect concerns about their behavior
4. The institutional structures can provide both legitimacy and protection
This pattern often leads to a cycle where:
- New people are attracted by the functional/achievement aspects
- They gradually experience the concerning behaviors
- They leave and are replaced by new followers
- The cycle continues while the core issues remain unaddressed
The presence of successful practical endeavors doesn't negate the validity of community members' concerns - both aspects can coexist, which makes these situations particularly complex to address.
